U To Shut Down?
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BoeingBoy
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805, 6, 9, 10, 15, 18, 21. These are the 7 Emb-170's subject to ongoing section 1110 negotiations between U and Embraer. The latest deadline for reaching an agreement is 11/25/04.
These are the planes that were the subject of the thread "More E170s Soon, Maybe Maybe Not?".
Jim
These are the planes that were the subject of the thread "More E170s Soon, Maybe Maybe Not?".
Jim
ClueByFour
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Rico said:
MDA's assets (read: the E-170s) will be sold, but the employees won't be going with that equipment. So yeah, your "part" (or ride) will be sold, but don't kid yourself into thinking that anyone will be taking the employees with it....
Oh, ok, so you are saying that it would make more sense to take a 20-30+ Aircraft fleet, let it sit around while you spend the large amount of money to train the 300 some-odd pilots, each taking 1.5-3 months to get online.., and then open bases, also hire additional Mechanics, Flight Attendants and Dispatchers and possibly get your operation up and running in record time without major (read = expensive) issues arising as a result...?
Or...
Take a ready to go, ready to "separate" operation, that already has lower labor costs in place than anything you could come up with or use, and can start flying for you the very next day after purchase...?
Whatever. 🙄
Get a clue, by four, the Division has been maintained in a ready state to be spun off since the creation of MDA. That is one of the reasons they were ABLE to get financing in the first place, not just for planes, but the associated cost of adding those planes to the US Airways Fleet (cause someone will want MDA if US Airways does not survive)
Trust me, low costs always win out in the end when it comes to deciding to keep or leave behind the employees. That is the one constant in this industry. <_<
And THAT is the lesson that you need to learn, that if the Entire US Airways operation is to survive, then the entire operation must get costs down. Spinning off MDA intact is only possible because our costs are already so low.
MDA is fully part of US Airways, but do not "kid yourself" that it is not been packaged for sale (as is) if no other option remains. Let's get these negotiations worked out so that option does not need to be the only one remaining.
Peace B)
Or...
Take a ready to go, ready to "separate" operation, that already has lower labor costs in place than anything you could come up with or use, and can start flying for you the very next day after purchase...?
Whatever. 🙄
Get a clue, by four, the Division has been maintained in a ready state to be spun off since the creation of MDA. That is one of the reasons they were ABLE to get financing in the first place, not just for planes, but the associated cost of adding those planes to the US Airways Fleet (cause someone will want MDA if US Airways does not survive)
Trust me, low costs always win out in the end when it comes to deciding to keep or leave behind the employees. That is the one constant in this industry. <_<
And THAT is the lesson that you need to learn, that if the Entire US Airways operation is to survive, then the entire operation must get costs down. Spinning off MDA intact is only possible because our costs are already so low.
MDA is fully part of US Airways, but do not "kid yourself" that it is not been packaged for sale (as is) if no other option remains. Let's get these negotiations worked out so that option does not need to be the only one remaining.
Peace B)
ALG certificate = still active, good to go baby... 😀
Oppps, you did not know that they have kept ALG alive, and flying still..., And do not plan to transfer the flying off of that certificate until 2005 eh...? Guess ou were not paying attention with the whole DCAir/Potomac affair a few years back, were you...
Back to the topic.
Once again, MDA is the most probable part of US Airways to remain intact IF US Airways folds.
And once again, lets's do what needs to be done, so that MDA is not the only part of US Airways that survives
Do not let your entitlism agenda get in the way of that.
Oppps, you did not know that they have kept ALG alive, and flying still..., And do not plan to transfer the flying off of that certificate until 2005 eh...? Guess ou were not paying attention with the whole DCAir/Potomac affair a few years back, were you...
Back to the topic.
Once again, MDA is the most probable part of US Airways to remain intact IF US Airways folds.
And once again, lets's do what needs to be done, so that MDA is not the only part of US Airways that survives
Do not let your entitlism agenda get in the way of that.
Bluestreak
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Rico,
I agree with your thinking. It looks like U is making MDA and PSA look profitable in an attempt to create a golden parachute for investors in the event of liquidation. I was talking to a bankrupcy attorney this weekend and she told me DIP financers don't like seeing golden parachutes. In the end, the fancy bookwork that paints MDA and PSA as profitable could scare away potential DIP financing because it makes it look like management has no faith in their current plan when they have such an obvious exit strategy.
I agree with your thinking. It looks like U is making MDA and PSA look profitable in an attempt to create a golden parachute for investors in the event of liquidation. I was talking to a bankrupcy attorney this weekend and she told me DIP financers don't like seeing golden parachutes. In the end, the fancy bookwork that paints MDA and PSA as profitable could scare away potential DIP financing because it makes it look like management has no faith in their current plan when they have such an obvious exit strategy.
You just cant transfer a certificate and after a time period the certificate becomes void.
MDA is the most profitable? Dude you need to go for a drug test. MDA is part of US and the most profitable part of US is the International Flying, Caribbean and Europe, don't see any 170s flying there.
Potomac was set up with assets from Piedmont to spin off to DCAir which would then have to get certification and approval from the DOT and FAA to fly the F100s and other fleet types going over.
Guess I am very familar.
MDA is the most profitable? Dude you need to go for a drug test. MDA is part of US and the most profitable part of US is the International Flying, Caribbean and Europe, don't see any 170s flying there.
Potomac was set up with assets from Piedmont to spin off to DCAir which would then have to get certification and approval from the DOT and FAA to fly the F100s and other fleet types going over.
Guess I am very familar.
Oh by the way Rico, here is what you get when you search the FAA for Allegheny's Certificate:
PIEDMONT AIRLINES INC
Airline internet site Not available
FAA Designator Code HNAA
Certificate Number HNAA001A
Years In Business 35
Certificate Issue Date 05/29/1969
FAA Office BALTIMORE FLT STDS DIST OFFICE
FAA Office Phone Number (410) 787-0040
Airline Information
Airline Address 5443 AIRPORT TERMINAL ROAD
SALISBURY , MD 21804-1700
Phone Number (410) 742-2996
Operation Kind 1. DOMESTIC AND FLAG (PAX / CARGO)
Operator is doing business as 1. ALLEGHENY AIRLINES
2. USAIRWAYS EXPRESS
Certificate information
Funny no certificate exists anymore for Allegheny.
PIEDMONT AIRLINES INC
Airline internet site Not available
FAA Designator Code HNAA
Certificate Number HNAA001A
Years In Business 35
Certificate Issue Date 05/29/1969
FAA Office BALTIMORE FLT STDS DIST OFFICE
FAA Office Phone Number (410) 787-0040
Airline Information
Airline Address 5443 AIRPORT TERMINAL ROAD
SALISBURY , MD 21804-1700
Phone Number (410) 742-2996
Operation Kind 1. DOMESTIC AND FLAG (PAX / CARGO)
Operator is doing business as 1. ALLEGHENY AIRLINES
2. USAIRWAYS EXPRESS
Certificate information
Funny no certificate exists anymore for Allegheny.
Hey,
READ before responding. I said Probable, not profitable.. Way to pay attention. 🙄
IF Allegheny is flying under the PDT certificate and not it's own, then I stand corrected. ALG is still flying, and it remains a question if that old certificate has been surrendered. But then again...
IF US Airways is gone, obviously MDA can just continue to use that certificate. Not much you can agrue about that, can you...? In fact that makes more sense in the liquidation senario than use of the ALG certifcate.
Thanks for pointing that out 700UW.
READ before responding. I said Probable, not profitable.. Way to pay attention. 🙄
IF Allegheny is flying under the PDT certificate and not it's own, then I stand corrected. ALG is still flying, and it remains a question if that old certificate has been surrendered. But then again...
IF US Airways is gone, obviously MDA can just continue to use that certificate. Not much you can agrue about that, can you...? In fact that makes more sense in the liquidation senario than use of the ALG certifcate.
Thanks for pointing that out 700UW.
BoeingBoy
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Rico said:
Rico,
You did say "profitable"....
Until you see MDA get it's own certificate, don't worry about any spinoff. The ALG certificate (if it still exists) is useless without the Emb-170 being on it. In the time any acquiring entity could get the Emb-170 added and jump through the FAA/DOT hoops, they could train enough people to fly the airplanes.
Much more likely is another carrier picking up the airplanes from the lessors/creditors during liquidation. Chataugua has the Emb-170 on their certificate and is training pilots now, by the way.
BoeingBoy
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Actually, it was several posts back and still there when I posted the above.
Thinking that someone will come along, buy MDA lock, stock, and barrel, and start operations the next day is pure fantasy - it just doesn't work that way. Too many hoops to jump through.
If that someone doesn't already run an airline (hence need an operating certificate), they have to go through the process of getting all the approvals.
If they already operate an airline but not the Emb-170, the last thing they need is another ops certificate without the Emb-170, and they already have people who would want to fly the "newest and biggest" RJ.
Finally, if they already operate an airline with the Emb-170 on the certificate, they have employees who want to fly the "newest and biggest" RJ. Like my nephew who's in 170 training now at Chataugua - I'm pretty sure that he and those like him would not look favorably on "johnny come lately's" moving in front of them.
But it makes for a good fantasy.....
Jim
Thinking that someone will come along, buy MDA lock, stock, and barrel, and start operations the next day is pure fantasy - it just doesn't work that way. Too many hoops to jump through.
If that someone doesn't already run an airline (hence need an operating certificate), they have to go through the process of getting all the approvals.
If they already operate an airline but not the Emb-170, the last thing they need is another ops certificate without the Emb-170, and they already have people who would want to fly the "newest and biggest" RJ.
Finally, if they already operate an airline with the Emb-170 on the certificate, they have employees who want to fly the "newest and biggest" RJ. Like my nephew who's in 170 training now at Chataugua - I'm pretty sure that he and those like him would not look favorably on "johnny come lately's" moving in front of them.
But it makes for a good fantasy.....
Jim
