UAL Corp. quarterly loss at $152 million

[ualdriver]

Wow 767Jetz, they're harassing the heck out of you! I agree with everyting you're saying, if it matters! I went to the BET training when it was in its "draft" stages as a volunteer on ALPA's behalf and patiently and intently sat through the course with a completely open mind. It's largely a waste of time for most employee groups, especially considering the average employee temperament that exists at the current time. They didn't listen to anything we had to say. Oh well. At least our boxed lunch during the break was quite good.

And sorry guys, when the brake is set and the final checklist is completed, I'm out the door once I say goodbye and thanks to the first class passengers (if they haven't left yet). If they want to pay discount airline pilot wages, that's fine. But they also get a discount airline pilot when the cockpit door opens. Sorry! Unfortunately, its a job now and not a career so there's little point in investing volunteer time for a company that may not be here 5 years from now. They'll probably be back anyway when we're the cheapest fare on Orbitz whether they see my smiling face or not 🙂

 

[UnitedChicago]

The loss isn't due to employee pay or other costs; it must be because ticket prices are too low. UnitedChicago, I agree with you that United needs to raise ticket prices.

i don't really agree with that. united and aa are charging the same (most likely) in markets that they compete so why is united losing and they're making? it's partially due to (i'm speculating) that united continues to run a too complex operation, hasn't done the same amount to reduce fuel consumption and is generally not focused on operations. they're working on how to sell the company.

Wow 767Jetz, they're harassing the heck out of you! I agree with everyting you're saying, if it matters! I went to the BET training when it was in its "draft" stages as a volunteer on ALPA's behalf and patiently and intently sat through the course with a completely open mind. It's largely a waste of time for most employee groups, especially considering the average employee temperament that exists at the current time. They didn't listen to anything we had to say. Oh well. At least our boxed lunch during the break was quite good.

And sorry guys, when the brake is set and the final checklist is completed, I'm out the door once I say goodbye and thanks to the first class passengers (if they haven't left yet). If they want to pay discount airline pilot wages, that's fine. But they also get a discount airline pilot when the cockpit door opens. Sorry! Unfortunately, its a job now and not a career so there's little point in investing volunteer time for a company that may not be here 5 years from now. They'll probably be back anyway when we're the cheapest fare on Orbitz whether they see my smiling face or not 🙂

nice attitude

 

[JAMAKE1]

Oh please, UAL Driver: Spare me the "the discount airline" pilot wages B.S. You guys set the brake and were out the door even after bringing the company to its knees and enjoying top-of-industry wages...

As Fly stated, it is a result of the breakdown of standards and expectations that the company has allowed to happen.

And another thing, the ground time spent on company property prior to actual push-back and block-in is factored in to establish hourly pay rates (flight time) for pilots and F/A's alike. So to take a minute to greet the customer good-bye is hardly working for free. Your "discount airline wages" can't be all that bad, since you still continue to choose to show up...

 

[Bear96]

No where in our job description or our contract does it allow for the company to arbitrarily require "business" training.

I don't follow. Does your job description or contract PROHIBIT the training?

Kinda like, say, the employee cafeteria in ORD. Does your contract expressly "allow for" an employee cafeteria in ORD? If not, does that mean UA should get rid of it, or that the pilots shouldn't be permitted to use it?

 

[ualdriver]

nice attitude

Yeah, I know. That's the way it is now. You'll get to your destination safely if you fly with me. If you're a high yield guy you'll get some extra attention from me as necessary (delays, diverts, mechanicals, etc.), but beyond that.......unfortunately it's just a job now.

 

[ualdriver]

Oh please, UAL Driver: Spare me the "the discount airline" pilot wages B.S. You guys set the brake and were out the door even after bringing the company to its knees and enjoying top-of-industry wages...

As Fly stated, it is a result of the breakdown of standards and expectations that the company has allowed to happen.

And another thing, the ground time spent on company property prior to actual push-back and block-in is factored in to establish hourly pay rates (flight time) for pilots and F/A's alike. So to take a minute to greet the customer good-bye is hardly working for free. Your "discount airline wages" can't be all that bad, since you still continue to choose to show up...

Actually, we are making discount airline pilot wages and I'm not necessarily complaining about them. I understand that the market has changed for my services and that if I don't like it, I can leave. I'm just saying that there was a day when I was paid a premium for my services and in my opinion, the company deserved a premium pilot product. For example, I never got off my plane until the last passenger got off. I used to write out business cards for our First Class passengers, etc., etc. To say that I set the brake and was out the door is an unfair generalization and did not apply to me, and I have a small drawer next to my desk with notes from passengers that say otherwise as well. Now that my wages have been decreased to discount airline pilot wages, the level of service has dropped accordingly. No matter how much I smile when people get off the airplane, when they go for their next flight, they'll be on orbitz, travelocity, etc., going for the cheapest fare, generally speaking. It's pretty pointless to knock yourself out for a flying public that really could care less about service, again generally speaking.

 

[767jetz]

I don't follow. Does your job description or contract PROHIBIT the training?

Kinda like, say, the employee cafeteria in ORD. Does your contract expressly "allow for" an employee cafeteria in ORD? If not, does that mean UA should get rid of it, or that the pilots shouldn't be permitted to use it?

Alright Bear, Now you're just playing games with me. I get it. I don't think I can be more clear about ALPA's position. I think most people reading my posts get the gist.

To answer... yes it is in our contract that ALPA must be involved in any training to ensure fairness, relevance, and maximize benefit. Anything we do as far as time is covered under the section "hours of service" and "scheduling." In the past, ALPA has made exceptions as pointed out in my previous posts. The company is trying to slip this by as required when it is certainly not. If it went to arbitration, then a mediator would have to interpret the meaning behind the specific words in the contract. Currently ALPA is trying to resolve the issue with the company outside of the grievance process.

I hope that's clear enough now. 🙄

 

[StraaightTaalk]

EXACTLY.

My job ends when the airplane is safely parked at the gate and the checklist is complete.

Your job ends when the passengers are off the airplane.

It's in the job description. Look it up.

Cop out. Typical nonsense borne out of cockpit arrogance, and a convenient lapse in memory as to who pays our salaries.

Locked cockpit door or not, you work in the part of the transportation industry that transports PEOPLE. The fact that you could give a rat's you-know-what to say goodbye to passengers tells me a lot about your work ethic. No pride, obviously. Yes, it's a job, but show some pride, for God's sake.

If you simply cannot muster up the energy or the enthusiasm to actually FACE some of the "self-loading freight," as some of you less-than-socialized cockpit types refer to passengers, maybe you should quit United and fly checks around the country at night.

 

[StraaightTaalk]

Jeez Straaight! You sure do carry around lots of anger. Personally, I don't have the time to waste hating anyone. I'm sorry your world is such a hateful place. If AA is really THAT bad maybe you should consider alternate employment. 🙁

No anger here. I just call it like I see it.

If I think somebody is arrogant, self-serving, self-absorbed, self-entitled and selfish, I am going to say it. The hatred you are trying to read into my words is your own baggage.

Unlike you, though, I still take pride in my job. The pay cuts, deterioration in working conditions, etc. do not define me. I will not let them turn me into somebody like you who might as well be punching a time clock and working on some assembly line.

 

[ualdriver]

No anger here. I just call it like I see it.

If I think somebody is arrogant, self-serving, self-absorbed, self-entitled and selfish, I am going to say it. The hatred you are trying to read into my words is your own baggage.

Unlike you, though, I still take pride in my job. The pay cuts, deterioration in working conditions, etc. do not define me. I will not let them turn me into somebody like you who might as well be punching a time clock and working on some assembly line.

Maybe he (and I for that matter) show pride where it matters the absolute most? Behind the cockpit door.

If I was a paying passenger (and I am several times a year at least), I really could care less if the Captain comes out of the cockpit and flashes me his/her pearly whites when I walk off the airplane. I want him to get me and my family's a$$ safely from point A to B. Beyond that, I really could care less what he/she does and I won't pay extra for a "friendly" Captain, either. Much like most of my airline's customers.

 

[StraaightTaalk]

Maybe he (and I for that matter) show pride where it matters the absolute most? Behind the cockpit door.

If I was a paying passenger (and I am several times a year at least), I really could care less if the Captain comes out of the cockpit and flashes me his/her pearly whites when I walk off the airplane. I want him to get me and my family's a$$ safely from point A to B. Beyond that, I really could care less what he/she does and I won't pay extra for a "friendly" Captain, either. Much like most of my airline's customers.

If he is a professional, as he claims, I EXPECT him to get me safely from point A to point B. My assumption is that he wants to get there safely, too.

Getting us there safely is the MINIMUM expectation we have of an airline pilot. Or maybe pilots like jetz, master of the universe that he thinks he is, now thinks he is doing us a favor by getting us safely from point A to point B. 🙄

 

[JAMAKE1]

Straaight Talk: You and I are clearly speaking the same language. Getting safely from point A to point B is a given. That is the basic fundamental of air transport. What sets a company...or individual apart, is service. And Mr. UAL Driver, it may not matter to you, but to the person with the six year old in tow, who'd like to visit the cockpit upon arrival and have a friendly encounter with the cockpit crew, for a mere two minutes, IT DOES MATTER. It is those experiences that often leave a favorable impression on a youngster that may inspire him or her to one day become an aviator. On a similar note, I could merely cook your meal and sling it up to the cockpit, but I don't. On my flight, I will line your tray with an extra white linen, warm your bread roll, plate your meal, keep the tin on it to keep it from going cold, and include whatever extras I may have, such as warm nuts or an ice cream sundae. These are extras that I don't have to do, but that I do out of respect for your position...and profession, and out of respect for my own integrity and work ethic. As Straaight Talk eloquently stated, my diminished pay doesn't define who I am, nor the quality of my work performance. You remind me of the type of pilot who won't turn on channel nine, oblivious to the fact that many of our customers choose our airline BECAUSE of channel nine. It is attitudes like yours that create the kind of disconnect between the pilot group and the flight attendant group. If you will merely step out of your own ego-centric narrow world view, you will find that a little goodness does go a long way. UAL Driver and Jetz: I challenge you to be a little bigger than your pay cut and remind you both that you're not hauling cargo nor flying for the U.S. military. As an airline, we are in the business of SERVICE. Perhaps they didn't teach you that at DENTK. I challenge both of you to not play quite so small...because the attitude that you have both displayed on this board is not admirable nor something to aspire to...

 

[767jetz]

ok- fair enough. and so when we dig deeper, we see that they still posted a loss when all other legacies out of BK earned money.

Unacceptable

I agree. It is unacceptable. It's also unacceptable to play creative accounting games when you know there are talks ongoing with labor trying to regain pay and work rules.

 

[767jetz]

Bear,

Here is the March 23rd Special MEC update I was looking for:

2. The United MEC also unanimously adopted the following resolution:

WHEREAS, United Airlines has developed a Business Education Training (BET) course for its employees, and

WHEREAS, United Airlines has informed the MEC it will require all employees to attend this training, and

WHEREAS, local council officers recently completed this training with their local Flight Offices, and

WHEREAS, it is in the opinion of ALPA this training is ill-conceived and ill-timed,

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, the UAL-MEC directs the Master Chairman to immediately communicate to senior management the following:

1. The BET course does not provide productive training associated with pilots in their day-to-day operational duties.
2. This training is not intended to incorporate any valued input from pilots concerning the day to day flight operations which are the core of this company’s business. This in turn negatively impacts Captain’s Authority.
3. Other issues as identified by the MEC and communicated today to Jane Allen, and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, the MEC adamantly opposes the company forcing pilots to attend their Business Education Training.


'Nuff said

 

[Fly]

That's the problem, we ALL have with the BET training. It's on all of our days off. Don't sweat it Jetz, you're still making more than the f/a's. We're getting about $70 a day, have to go for 2 days, and if we call in sick it goes against us big time.

But not all is lost. I heard one part of the day is devoted to JUGGLING ***I kid you not***