Ual For Sale

[skyflyr69]

United Airlines

The industry's No. 2 carrier has been mired in bankruptcy the last two years but CEO Glenn Tilton got people talking on Feb. 17 when he said industry consolidation was inevitable and it would be best for United to participate in a merger. "Tilton put a for-sale sign up," said local airline analyst Bill Lauer.


Who would want such a debt ridden beast? i figure an investment banking firm could step in and piece it out. JMO.

:unsure:

 

[Busdrvr]

United Airlines

The industry's No. 2 carrier has been mired in bankruptcy the last two years but CEO Glenn Tilton got people talking on Feb. 17 when he said industry consolidation was inevitable and it would be best for United to participate in a merger. "Tilton put a for-sale sign up," said local airline analyst Bill Lauer.
Who would want such a debt ridden beast? i figure an investment banking firm could step in and piece it out. JMO.

:unsure:

[post="251211"][/post]​

I suggest you go read up some. UAL post BK will have one of the lowest debt levels in the industry. And I don't think he meant UAL would be selling. FWIW, even ALPA has started to get on the "consolidation" bandwagon. It's time the government allowed the legacy carriers to compete with the protected and subsidized LCC's

 

[mweiss]

It's time the government allowed the legacy carriers to compete with the protected and subsidized LCC's

[post="251214"][/post]​

Hmmm...who's protecting and subsidizing LCCs? Which ones? This has gotta be good... <_<

 

[767jetz]

Hmmm...who's protecting and subsidizing LCCs? Which ones? This has gotta be good... <_<

[post="251245"][/post]​

Well... Airbus and Jet Blue for one.

 

[CaptianBoomer]

How pray tell, is JetBlue "subsidized"?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Boomer

 

[JFK777]

Boomer,

JetBlue has two sources of subsidies: European tax payors subsidizing Airbus and The New York Political machine. Guiliani, Governor Pataki, and other "found" JetBlue 100 slots at JFK if they would fly to upstate New York( the NYC - upstate air fares are(were) expensive). These 2 pillars of twenty first century political creation helped JB with its well planned birth.

 

[CaptianBoomer]

JFK777:

While I cannot comment on the "political" nature of the business as far as JetBlue, I will comment on the Airbus situation. LCC's have been getting the nod from the politico's for a long time. But I will ask a question. Did any other airline want to place a significant number of domestic departures at JFK? It was an extremely underutilized airport. It was ripe for the picking.

If you check out the genesis of JetBlue, you will find that JetBlue was created around the Boeing 737 NG aircraft. In other words, Neeleman stuck with what he knew. He had 737's at Morris and of course LUV has operated them for years. In fact, it is my understanding that JetBlue was ready to have their 737 books sent to the FAA for certification, when the Airbus people called. Only after many discussions was the Airbus chosen. It was chosen because it offers a superior cabin experience and I am sure the price was right. Airbus may be subsidized with government money from the European Union, but Boeing has been subsidized with US government defense contracts for years.

I have flown the Boeings and the Bus. The Boeings are generally more pilot friendly, but the Busses are generally more people friendly. (the narrowbodies)

Secondly, Boeing has used the same fuselage cross section from the 60's. Very little product improvement over the years. IMO they have lost their edge in the commercial market.

IMO this is just smoke and mirrors. JetBlue is doing what they do very well.

Boomer

 

[Winglet]

Boomer,

JetBlue has two sources of subsidies: European tax payors subsidizing Airbus and The New York Political machine. Guiliani, Governor Pataki, and other "found" JetBlue 100 slots at JFK if they would fly to upstate New York( the NYC - upstate air fares are(were) expensive). These 2 pillars of twenty first century political creation helped JB with its well planned birth.

[post="251323"][/post]​

Political and corporate graft aren't just limited to the LCC airlines. It's pandemic throughout American business.

 

[TechBoy]

Boomer,

JetBlue has two sources of subsidies: European tax payors subsidizing Airbus and The New York Political machine. Guiliani, Governor Pataki, and other "found" JetBlue 100 slots at JFK if they would fly to upstate New York( the NYC - upstate air fares are(were) expensive). These 2 pillars of twenty first century political creation helped JB with its well planned birth.

[post="251323"][/post]​

Nonsense. The slots would have been "found" for any carrier that was willing to commit to mainline services at reasonable fares to upstate. And the Airbus subsidies are also enjoyed by many legacy carriers, including UA, US, NW, HP.
So back to the original question: how are the LCCs "protected and subsidized?"

 

[Borescope]

Nonsense.  The slots would have been "found" for any carrier that was willing to commit to mainline services at reasonable fares to upstate.  And the Airbus subsidies are also enjoyed by many legacy carriers, including UA, US, NW, HP. 
So back to the original question: how are the LCCs "protected and subsidized?"

[post="251382"][/post]​

Guess you made the point well, because we see no reply to this. It's amazing how the truth works. Nice job TechBoy

 

[Fly]

What?!? In 45 minutes? Borescope, go join Roin! (I think Fish got him banished permanently to the cornfield. )

 

[funguy2]

Political and corporate graft aren't just limited to the LCC airlines. It's pandemic throughout American business.

[post="251369"][/post]​

Absolutely...

As if the Wright Amendment and the LGA/DCA Perimeter rules (among others) weren't political decisions which favor certain airlines, and pre-date jetBlue.

 

[enilria]

Guess you made the point well, because we see no reply to this. It's amazing how the truth works. Nice job TechBoy

[post="251391"][/post]​

Furthermore, United has a substantial portfolio of slots at JFK/LGA/DCA. Let me refresh your memory how much they paid for them ... ZERO. They were given to them by the federal government for nothing after the PATCO strike. The fact that JetBlue managed to get some slots at JFK for the same price UA paid is hardly a subsidy.

In fact, the whole concept is ridiculous. It is rightly pointed out that JetBlue is essentially required to fly to upstate NY in order to get the slots whereas UA has no restrictions on any of its slots.

As for the Airbus garbage, I seem to remember United operates a fleet of Airbus A320s and A319s so I don't see why JetBlue is any more subsidized than United. If JetBlue got a better deal on the same airplane's than the idiots who run United then that is hardly JetBlue's fault.

 

[jimntx]

I suggest you go read up some. UAL post BK will have one of the lowest debt levels in the industry. And I don't think he meant UAL would be selling. FWIW, even ALPA has started to get on the "consolidation" bandwagon. It's time the government allowed the legacy carriers to compete with the protected and subsidized LCC's

[post="251214"][/post]​

To get back on the topic...
Don't be too sure that UAL is not for sale. Remember the following joke.

Man in bar (to woman seated next to him): Would you go to bed with me for a million dollars?
Woman: (Thinks a minute, then...) A million dollars? Sure.
Man: Would you go to bed with me for $2.00?
Woman: Two dollars??!!! What do you think I am?
Man: We've already established that. We are just negotiating a price.

Everything is for sale for the right price! If someone comes along and offers the BOD a good price for controlling interest in UAL, it would be a violation of Federal security laws for the BOD to not make that offer known to the stockholders. For all we know, Tilton may be signaling the money markets that the BOD is "open to suggestions."

That being said, however, I agree with the point made on another thread. All of the legacy airlines (and quite a few of the LCCs) are so debt-ridden that any acquisition/merger activity is more likely to take the form of the sale of certain assets than a complete merger or acquisition. In addition, the unionized work group issues seem insurmountable in most of the suggested mergers (see also AA-TWA).

I think any asset sales will be in the form of ac/routes/landing slots that do not involve employees--scope clauses notwithstanding. Our respective unions over the last 4 years have shown not the slightest compunction over throwing junior members under the bus to preserve seniority/senior jobs.

 

[JetClipper]

UAL post BK will have one of the lowest debt levels in the industry.

[post="251214"][/post]​

At the risk of rubbing salt into old wounds, there is something, well, perverse about a company being able to simply wipe-out debts incurred largely due to its own ineptitude.

I know that 9/11 and the LCCs played at least some part, and that Chapter 11 is by no means an “easyâ€￾ undertaking, but this still strikes me as just plain wrong. Where’s the accountability for making bad decisions?