Unfolding News & Events?

[PITbull]

Art,

Thank you again, and very well said.


Just to give you some idea and comparative prospective of the costs savings that were granted to this management....$1.8 Billion in cost savings per year was extracted from American Airline workers through severe concessions. AA is 2/3 BIGGER than U.

U received $1.4 billion per year from their workers through concessions and we are much smaller of an airline. So you can see, that U has even more advantage over American with cost savings. Not only that, but U is still in the process of stealing more costs savings from the contracts through "sick pay penalties", more furloughs, and violating the scope language of the IAM.

For example again just in the f/a department: United Airlines furloughed 6,000 flight attendants out of approx 24,000. U furloughed 5,400 flight attendants out of approx 10,400, and was able to yield even more cost savings that they (management) refuse to compute the dollar amount to labor. This is the case in all labor catagories with regard to furlough. They won't gove us a dollar amount for all the heads that are gone off the property. So you know that $1.4 Billion of cost savings is much bigger than that in savings when you have even less people salaries to pay and benfits.

Total net loss of jobs at U: approx 20,000, which equates to 1/5 of the 100,000 furloughed/job losses in the entire industry since 9/11.

I believe U employees got hit the hardest, and it ain't over yet. We opened the pandora box, its for U employees to close it for this industry.

This is why the employees of U have collectively had it!

PS: Employee contributions for medical go up again 15% for all employees, Jan 2004. Total of three increases in 12 months.

 

[cavalier]

My issue is separate from the farm out issue in that I believe third party contractors, just like US Airways mechanics, both do excellent work.

Chip I can fly your plane. It's simple really. But Chip can you fix it as well like I and my fellow mechanics can? Hmmm? You write as though any smack can fix these birds and do it safely. You did not research this issue Chip because this is NOT the case. It's public record. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. The lowest common denominator is not the answer. Dave and his hatchet team believe in cut cut cut and accept the fact that these actions create anger among the remaining employees. They don't care and neither do the people making peanuts working for these third party vendors. They don't care if you crash and burn, unless, like JetMech points out in his post, they have a gun held to their head making the cost go up to the point that it's impractical for third party maintenance. Wal-Mart maintenance is NOT the answer. What I believe we should do is leaflet the flying public of this walmarting of maintenance with proof enclosed of the accidents that have occurred over the years. Also Chip…Thanks for your rock solid support of our work being taken from us!

 

[SalesGuyCCY]

You people just don't get it! The world is changing and labor MUST move along with it. It's unfortunate, yes, but I chose a carreer with portable skills so if I'm forced to go, I can, and can also maintain my standard of living. Everyone needs to do that and not just rely on one company for their life-long income. It just doesn't work that way any longer.

 

[bigbusdrvr]

I remember in the early 90's reading where they estimated approx. 1 major hull lose per week world wide by the year 2010. This was based on mathmatical formulas similar to age of death tables for the insurance industries.

It would appear that with the dumbing down of the pilot profession, both in qualifications and benifits, and I assume all other aspects of the airline industry, that the management's of the airlines might be ready to just pay the insurance premiums and associated lawsuits from the inevitable outcome of such a course.

I think its their belief that it is cheaper and advantageous to the shareholder to have "aceptable losses" rather than try for the safest possible situation.

This is why until you have an outcry from the traveling public the low time jet pilots, contracted maintenence, minimally trained flight attendants , understaffed and ill trained ground support will be the norm.

Like most all of these experiments in aviation, it will not end nor be an issue with the traveling public, until we get the proverbial "smoking hole"!!

Just my spin on this whole post 9/11 industry reorgainization!!

 

[cavalier]

You people just don't get it! The world is changing and labor MUST move along with it. It's unfortunate, yes, but I chose a carreer with portable skills so if I'm forced to go, I can, and can also maintain my standard of living. Everyone needs to do that and not just rely on one company for their life-long income. It just doesn't work that way any longer.

Your sales pitch isn't working. The new mind set of the business world of destroying careers and families is only justified in your own mind but not in the least moral. Honoring a legal contact and a hand shake no longer means anything to people of your mind set. The only thing that matters is how much can be extracted from the working man’s pockets so corporate America’s selfish executives can become very wealthy very fast. U is a case study of this, they are leading the way.

 

[PITbull]

Salesguy,

Why not? Are you saying there should no longer be careers? How do you establish loyalty and dedication to a company if its not through longeveity?

Why does the corporate execs haven't moved with the changes, and still get to collect the same perks, bonsuses, stock allocations, huge salaries? Why is it that these pxperts in the field can't yield a profit with all these concessions, BK, stakeholder moneis, 20,000 jobs gone off the property 2 bailouts from the gov? How come?

How come the changes in the industry have to be accepted and endured by "rank and file employees" who have skills and the passengers who fly?

Is these endured changes in the industry to be only for "rank and file"? Do you believe employees should have decent benefits so they can maintain health and be productive? or not?

 

[Art at ISP]

You people just don't get it! The world is changing and labor MUST move along with it. It's unfortunate, yes, but I chose a carreer with portable skills so if I'm forced to go, I can, and can also maintain my standard of living. Everyone needs to do that and not just rely on one company for their life-long income. It just doesn't work that way any longer.

Sales Guy,

With all due respect, YOU don't get it. Yes the world is changing. The employee groups have ALREADY given...twice or more. The passengers are giving--we are expected to accept a product which has been nickeled and dimed into something you should be ashamed of, and we have endured service reductions which have affected our travel schedules for the worse. I am no fan of organized labor (sorry PIT), but in this case they are not wrong. Yes--the world has changed--and it is unfortunately the management who doesn't get it.

You still ignore and refuse to fix the one thing which could provide significantly more revenue, and therefore mitigate losses if not turn a small profit. I don't know how to yell here but try this--

ITS THE FARES STUPID (again not aimed at an individual).

You have already bled the employees dry. NOW MOVE ON. You need to make CONSTRUCTIVE moves, not DESTRUCTIVE ones. These fine folks who work for you deserve an honest living, and they deserve the security of knowing that their jobs are safe.

Fix the fares and then make a product we all can be proud of. Then you'll see the revenue bumps and improvements to the bottom line you're looking for.

You're right--times are changing. It will never be business as usual again. But you are making the wrong changes. You'll never get your costs as low as an LCC, so stop trying.

I am beginning to believe that they just don't want this place to survive. I am beginning to wonder if my continued loyalty is misplaced......

Sorry for the rant, but I am calling it as I see it--from the outside, but with a vested interest in what goes on here.

 

[diogenes]

You people just don't get it! The world is changing and labor MUST move along with it. It's unfortunate, yes, but I chose a carreer with portable skills so if I'm forced to go, I can, and can also maintain my standard of living. Everyone needs to do that and not just rely on one company for their life-long income. It just doesn't work that way any longer.

Labor did change - twice. And major reductions in our buying power are built into the current contracts going forward. All we're asking is to abide by the contract, however pathetic it is.

But noooooooooo, greed knows no bounds.

I've read Orstein says pilots are still paid too much, as he still fills the training classes. What a marvelous idea. I nominate myself as CEO of U, and I'll do it for $100,000 a year!

Let's get SERIOUS about outsourcing.

Let the underbidding begin!

 

[phlflyguy]

I certainly understand the world has changed and the way people want to fly has changed however it would benefit management to work with it's employees and unite as a team to solve the issues at hand. This would put pride back into this airline. One that we ALL can be proud of but instead they choose to tell us one thing, then as we turn our backs only to find out they have just pulled the carpet out from under our feet.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Cav:

I understand your emotion and as I said I believe your union is taking the appropriate action. But, if what you say is true, than why does Southwest or FedEx not have a disproportionate mishap problem and why does the U.S. military seem to function just fine?

In my career I have flown SLEP acceptance, maintenance test, and R&D flights where maintenance was performed by contractors. In every event I never saw a problem or unprofessional contractor maintenance of R&D work.

Furthermore, do you believe the FAA is not doing its job inspecting these facilities?

US Airways and contractors both do excellent work and to suggest otherwise is wrong.

In regard to supporting your union, as I said before I support your action because this is all about outsourcing, but is not about safety.

Meanwhile, we will know more about this tommorrow after the parties present their case in court.

Respectfully,

Chip

 

[cavalier]

Cav:

I understand your emotion and as I said I believe your union is taking the appropriate action. But, if what you say is true, than why does Southwest or FedEx not have a disproportionate mishap problem and why does the U.S. military seem to function just fine?

In my career I have flown SLEP acceptance, maintenance test, and R&D flights where maintenance was performed by contractors. In every event I never saw a problem or unprofessional contractor maintenance of R&D work.

Furthermore, do you believe the FAA is not doing its job inspecting these facilities?

US Airways and contractors both do excellent work and to suggest otherwise is wrong.

In regard to supporting your union, as I said before I support your action because this is all about outsourcing, but is not about safety.

Meanwhile, we will know more about this tommorrow after the parties present their case in court.

Respectfully,

Chip

I just feel in these circumstances Chip you should not even express what you feel is true, in these circumstances and I am sure you understand that! As far as 3RD party, I'll say it again as per JetMech's post, it all has to do with oversight. On the FAA, I work with them and know what goes on, they are not omnipresent 24/7. The military has more personnel and a bigger budget with tighter controls. The military is over kill on everything, the FAA is not. The military have well trained mechanics working on the equipment not some kid hired off the street whose work is being signed off by his boss.

Ok Chip hope we understand each other now....

Respectfully....Cav

 

[FlyingHippie]

SalesGuyCCY, you're right. The cold hard reality at US Airways and at most big companies is this: You can't count on working for anyone other than yourself. Being protected by the big company's umbrella no longer provides shelter from the storm. It's the American way now. You wonder why things are the way they are. This country's business ethics no longer breed loyalty, they breed contempt and hatred. This is what business schools are teaching. What's worse, nobody cares! All the public cares about is a cheap fare, cheap stuff -- Walmart has become the world's largest retailer because it pays its employees crap! I no longer see airline careers as long term. The new business plans call for turnover. This will come at a huge price. I think you all know what I am talking about.

 

[nereus]

Art at ISP,
Begging to differ with you but it isn't the "fares stupid!" If any airline could raise it's fares to cover its costs and make a profit then every airlne would be doing it. In my opinion, it is the infrastructure stupid! USAir continues to believe, employees included, that they can operate the airline they did 5, 10, 15 years ago the same today. No way. Employees cannot continue to expect to enjoy the same pay and benefits as they did in the gravy days and have the company survive. USAir operates in one of the most expensive parts of the world, with a route structure no sane person would dream up and still, after concessions, continues to try to pay their employees an above average wage for a below average airline. Something has to give and I don't see the employees willing to go down that road. I know about concessions. I'm living with them, too. If today's airline employee continues to believe that he will continue to compensated as he was 5, 10, 15 years ago, then watch the world pass you by.

N

 

[diogenes]

Nereus, Art generally argues for rationalizing the fares, not raising them. Lower the business fares, raise the leisure fares a bit. This would induce the business traveler. I agree with his assessment.

I think we at U all understand things cannot be, and will never be, as they were. The question is, how low do you go? At present, U wants to go, vis a vis Airbus outsourcing and 'expressing' stations, lower than many find acceptable.

Management thinks they should have sole initiative. They are wrong. With the amount labor ante'd up, we will sit at the table.

 

[Andre1980]

Art,

Thank you again, and very well said.


Just to give you some idea and comparative prospective of the costs savings that were granted to this management....$1.8 Billion in cost savings per year was extracted from American Airline workers through severe concessions. AA is 2/3 BIGGER than U.

U received $1.4 billion per year from their workers through concessions and we are much smaller of an airline. So you can see, that U has even more advantage over American with cost savings.

Have to disagree on that. I believe U's costs are still higher than AA even with the concessions. U's casm was the highest in the industry mainly due to high employee costs (U's pilots are paid more than AA's) and the fact that most of the short flights were being operated with main line equipment. Although some of those costs has been reduced U's casm is still above 10 cents whereas AA I believe is in the mid 9 cents range at the moment. I could be wrong but I have followed most of the fiancial results of the airlines so I am going to stick to what I saw.

Being a bigger airline does not mean that you have bigger losses or profits and if you want proof ask why Delta did not came close to bankruptcy and U lost about 2 billion in 2001 and was only exceeded by United.