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United to merge with US AIRWAYS rumor

You can't go into BK when you are showing profits and have money in the bank. Unfortunately UA is still not profitable after coming out of BK.

Sure you can. Remember Pennzoil's lawsuit against Texaco where Pennzoil was awarded $16B for Texaco's interfering in their attempt to buy Getty Oil? Texaco went into bk (I was working there then) to try and avoid paying the award, or at least not paying it all at one time. We had revenue in the $340 million range in those days which, at the time, was substantial. (Exxon's revenue in those days was slightly over $1B/yr. Wouldn't account for a quarter's revenue today.)

Didn't do us any good, we ended up having to pay it in full at one time. In fact, the payment set U.S. financial history. The financial powers that be discovered that the national EFT network could not transmit more than $9,999,999,999 at a time. Had to do the transfer in two installments.
 
As I reported a few days ago with the starting of this thread, it seems that the 'heavy duty UA/US rumors' of last week are now fruitating with the 'initial' public merger comments by "Top Management" from UA. The fact that this rumor preceded the announcement by UA management is quite interesting.

I believe there is a heavy hitter and the most likely candidate is United. Look for arbitration cases to be dropped by both IAM districts and for a much more rapid timetable in getting a new agreement for both 141 and the mechanic group. The I'll Ask Management union will hoodwink its members but any deal will most likely be pushed through by the AWA members.
Big money may be knocking at US AIRWAYS door and having labor muzzled with new hoodwinked contracts will help secure any transaction. Whatever is going to happen is going to happen very quickly IMO, with ALPA eventually deciding sometime in late fall.

With secure contracts for a new investor, I look for the 'proposed merger' to become a reality on the condition that ALPA members at US AIRWAYS come to a resolution that doesn't jeopardize any investment by, let's say United.

IMO, if this comes to pass, I believe ALPA members will vote for the proper seniority provisions so that any potential merger will be 'seamless'. I would say that the deck of cards has changed and if United does pick US AIRWAYS up then it will most likley want DOH seniority provisions to make it seamless. A vote against a United merger may mean 'dire consequences'.

Of course I'm not on a board nor have I talked to any board members so consider all of the above 'speculative' at this time. It's merely based on an incredible rumor that has gained force of late. Although such a rumor may just be BS, IMO, this rumor might stick.

regards,
 
Mechanics at US are IAM and UAL they are AMFA, you wont see the IAM cutting any deals to hasten a merger.
 
As I reported a few days ago with the starting of this thread, it seems that the 'heavy duty UA/US rumors' of last week are now fruitating with the 'initial' public merger comments by "Top Management" from UA. The fact that this rumor preceded the announcement by UA management is quite interesting.

I believe there is a heavy hitter and the most likely candidate is United. Look for arbitration cases to be dropped by both IAM districts and for a much more rapid timetable in getting a new agreement for both 141 and the mechanic group. The I'll Ask Management union will hoodwink its members but any deal will most likely be pushed through by the AWA members.
Big money may be knocking at US AIRWAYS door and having labor muzzled with new hoodwinked contracts will help secure any transaction. Whatever is going to happen is going to happen very quickly IMO, with ALPA eventually deciding sometime in late fall.

With secure contracts for a new investor, I look for the 'proposed merger' to become a reality on the condition that ALPA members at US AIRWAYS come to a resolution that doesn't jeopardize any investment by, let's say United.

IMO, if this comes to pass, I believe ALPA members will vote for the proper seniority provisions so that any potential merger will be 'seamless'. I would say that the deck of cards has changed and if United does pick US AIRWAYS up then it will most likley want DOH seniority provisions to make it seamless. A vote against a United merger may mean 'dire consequences'.

Of course I'm not on a board nor have I talked to any board members so consider all of the above 'speculative' at this time. It's merely based on an incredible rumor that has gained force of late. Although such a rumor may just be BS, IMO, this rumor might stick.

regards,
Dear friends, are you still waiting for those new uniforms, new routes, new aircrafts? Do you feel there's a lack of leadership at UAL? No meaningful PR announcements?
One airline analyst, and this one ONLY, wrote after getting acquainted with UAL's re-organization plan that it is a medium term plan. What if we don't find a "suitable" (dancing partner and we run out of time (reads money)?
Read on...
Safe travels...

Wednesday June 13, 3:59 pm ET
By Dave Carpenter, AP Business Writer


United Airlines Still Looking for a Merger, CFO Says

CHICAGO (AP) -- United Airlines remains interested in industry consolidation and would like to team up with a U.S. carrier with a strong presence in the Northeast and a hub in the South, its chief financial officer said Wednesday.
Jake Brace told analysts there are candidates for such a merger but indicated United has no intention of attempting a hostile takeover, citing the recent failed bid by US Airways Group Inc. to acquire Delta Air Lines Inc.

"Consolidation is not something that one company can do in isolation," he said at the Merrill Lynch Global Transportation Conference in New York. "We don't believe that ... hostiles in the airline industry are very successful. Our belief is that you have to do something on a consensual basis."

United, a unit of Chicago-based UAL Corp., publicly began touting the need for industry consolidation even before ending a three-year bankruptcy restructuring last year. But the nation's second-largest carrier has taken a lower profile on the subject in recent months with conditions less ripe for a merger.

Not only are U.S. airlines financially more stable than in recent years, both Delta and Northwest Airlines Corp. completed their restructurings this spring, thus eliminating rivals' ability to acquire them in bankruptcy and slash costs more readily in court.

Brace rejected a suggestion that United has downgraded consolidation as a priority and shed some light on what it has in mind if it can find a willing merger partner. He said it would like to combine with another airline that is strong in the Atlantic and needs a southern-tier hub to strengthen its service to the Caribbean and Latin America, where it has a smaller presence than other U.S. airlines.

"Our focus is on the Northeast, a southern-tier hub and helping us in Latin America," he said.

Delta, US Airways and Continental Airlines Inc. all have been mentioned as possible merger partners for United, although Brace didn't name names.

Airline consultant Robert Mann said Delta is the likeliest candidate, with strengths in both areas.

"If you're just taking the (Brace) hints, you'd say Delta," said Mann, who is based in Port Washington, N.Y.

"He's basically saying the same thing that (CEO Glenn) Tilton's been saying for a long time, which is 'Please, someone write us a big check.'"

Tilton and other advocates of consolidation say the industry would be financially stronger and more efficient by a merger that would eliminate excess capacity and help boost fares and revenue.

Delta CEO Gerald Grinstein disclosed last October that United had contacted the Atlanta-based airline about a possible merger in 2005, which Delta rejected. United also hired Goldman Sachs & Co. last year to explore strategic options.

Shares in United rose 10 cents to $34.70 in afternoon trading, down from $44 at the start of
 
You can't go into BK when you are showing profits and have money in the bank. Unfortunately UA is still not profitable after coming out of BK.

Very common misconception. You can go bk any time you wish, for any number of valid reasons, few having anything to do with profit or money in the bank.

Also, bk is rarely the same as liquidation, which always seems a surprise to our southeastern contingent, each time.
 
If this were a "real" rumor, you'd see action in the derivative markets, alas there is none. I sware you must be a paid pumper Tim, that or own a bunch of LCC shares.
IMHO, you have all the brains God gave a piss ant.
 
Mechanics at US are IAM and UAL they are AMFA, you wont see the IAM cutting any deals to hasten a merger.

I believe UAL still has roughly 5500 or so AMTs. How many AMTs does US currently have? Additionaly, UAL AMTs make a bit more than US AMTs and if UAL was the aquiring entity, coupled with the obvious turmoil in your AMT ranks at present, do you really believe that "IF" a merger was in the works that the IAM could in anyway stall it? I know theres certainly no love lost between the IAM and AMFA, but in the end it would come to a vote, and I just don't see the IAM prevailing.
 
I haven't seen this answered yet - there is not supposed to be any rearrangement of a pre-merger list during a merger so if this award goes forward it would pretty much set the US list in stone for any future merger no matter what method was used to merge the lists in the future.

In theory, I suppose the two merger committees could come to an agreement that would rearrange one or both of the pre-merger lists but you can imagine what kind of uproar that would cause.

Jim


Jim,

the "new" list, if it stands (AWA/US), took care of all our (US Airways pilot's) seniority, with the stroke of a pen (or keyboard), so ALPA will most likely go back to DOH at the next BOD meeting, fall 2007?! 🙂

Still don't see a merger between UAL & US, or UAL/CAL, or any other combo for that matter.

The National carriers might be targets, though...

How about something out of the "blue"? Split up of US Airways? Some pieces go to AMR, some to DAL, NWA, UAL etc...

Also, a leveraged buy-out (LBO) could be a way to go, however, the cost side is all but taken care of...So don't know where the savings would come from...

We'll see soon enough what Parker/Tilton and their counterparts have in store.


SoftLanding
 
Jim,

the "new" list, if it stands (AWA/US), took care of all our (US Airways pilot's) seniority, with the stroke of a pen (or keyboard), so ALPA will most likely go back to DOH at the next BOD meeting, fall 2007?! 🙂

Still don't see a merger between UAL & US, or UAL/CAL, or any other combo for that matter.

The National carriers might be targets, though...

How about something out of the "blue"? Split up of US Airways? Some pieces go to AMR, some to DAL, NWA, UAL etc...

Also, a leveraged buy-out (LBO) could be a way to go, however, the cost side is all but taken care of...So don't know where the savings would come from...

We'll see soon enough what Parker/Tilton and their counterparts have in store.
SoftLanding
Very interesting post IMO. I think a breakup of LCC in order to add different pieces to the legacies that need coverage in certain areas of their route structure would be a win win strategy. The problem with such an idea though is to get the all the other airlines to sing off the same page . Also airline CEOs seem to have large egos and convincing ours to breakup the company he has merged seems like a long shot.
 
If UA decides to merge it sounds like it will be with DL.

They bring a lot of assets to the table and a suffer from no real labor unrest. ATL is a real gem of a hub. the JFK presence is also a bonus. The only down side is the overlap between ORD and CVG and between DEN and SLC but I am sure they could work that out.
 
The U always seemed to have an inflated sense of self worth. We would be lucky to merge w/ UAL. The sooner this perpetualy? for sale airline slipped into history the better for everyone. I would be very happy to become UAL - they, on the other hand, probably would much prefer what DAL can bring to the table. The one thing that could be in our favor is if we make more money than DAL does.
 
I do not believe Douggie will be allowed to purchase any more airlines, with the state of his latest acquisition.
 
If UA decides to merge it sounds like it will be with DL.

They bring a lot of assets to the table and a suffer from no real labor unrest. ATL is a real gem of a hub. the JFK presence is also a bonus. The only down side is the overlap between ORD and CVG and between DEN and SLC but I am sure they could work that out.

The overlap is were the value is ..... that's were excess capacity can be squeezed out. A DL/US merger would have benefited most from the squeeze strategy. UA/DL could squeeze out a lot of east west overlap. US/AA could squeeze the Caribbean. US/CO would be an interesting squeeze, (PHL/EWR capacity). There would be almost "0" capacity squeeze in a NW/US hook up.
 

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