Us Airways Negotiations: 12 Angry Men

[USA320Pilot]

Autofixer & MarkMyWords:

Autofixer said: “Fred is a good guy and he has to be months from retirement. Why would he be hardline if he were not representing his constituents?â€￾

USA320Pilot comments: Freshwater has openly lobbied to Bruce Lakefield and the NC that he wants an ERIP, sick bank cash out, notational monies paid early, and increased vacation flyback. He is also suing ALPA over the loss of the DB Plan. Every one of his moves is designed to get an early cash payment regardless of the consequences because he lost a $2 million lump sum. In fact, there are reports that he supports further pilot furloughs even though attachment 3 of the company’s counterproposal provides an option to prevent furloughs and downgrades.

Furloughs and downgrades would be very expensive with 6 months of severance pay, re-training the airline, and MDA downgrades, etc. Marketing has let LGA station management know that the increased TP aircraft utilization will occur like a light bulb being turned on in mid-February. But the RC4 and people like Mwereplenes do not care as long as they get as much cash as they can from ERIPs, buyouts, sick bank cash out, or their lawsuit, all of which have been asked for on paper.

I believe it’s a conflict of interest to be a sitting MEC member suing the Association when the pilots will likely be assessed to pay the legal defense.

MarkMyWords said: “So what you are saying is, there are no formal restrictions on the NC, but the Chairman is pretty much in bed with the RC4?â€￾

USA320Pilot comments: Mark, that is an accurate description. Before every vote, roll call of course, called by Philadelphia F/O Rep Dan Von Bargen (who is also suing ALPA over the loss of the DB Plan) a recess was called every time. Then the RC 4 would proceed to one corner of the room for a private caucus without any other MEC member involved, thus isolating the officers, 8 other MEC members, the legal team, financial team, and communications committee. Interestingly, NC chairman Mowery went over and joined them. The RC 4 and Mowery seem to have some kind of an agenda, whatever it is, but do not let anybody else participate.

It’s truly a dictatorship.

There are no formal restrictions, but these 5 men are in bed with one another. The good news is that they wanted to keep the meeting closed, however, MEC chairman Bill Pollock forced it to stay open for all to see and hear. It appears the RC4 and Mowrey are scared to challenge the MEC chairman, especially after Michael Glanzer’s non-confidential report was released.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[USA320Pilot]

Just one more point...

The company's last proposal said, "Since the immediate furlough of pilots is neither practicable nor in the parties’ mutual interest, the Company will meet and discuss with ALPA various strategies to reduce the furlough of, or avoid recall of, pilots so long as such strategies, when implemented, do not increase expense for the Company. Among the strategies to be discussed are: Hold For Training, Increased Pay Cap Implementation, MidAtlantic Metering Provisions, MidAtlantic Attrition Provisions and Mainline Training and Displacement Minimization.

In addition, the Company and ALPA will agree to provisions that allow for an orderly transition to the Transformation Plan schedule and reallocation of pilots across bases between September 2004 and February 2006 to minimize training events, including a potential for out-of-seniority training within this period. In addition, allow the Company to train a pilot as much as six months in advance of his/her bid effective date," management said.

USA320Pilot comments: The intent of the provisions listed above is to prevent excessive cost to re-train the pilot group on different aircraft/seats and to e-focus airline operations. The point listed in bold of "avoid recall of" is discussing current furloughees, so the 15 to 20% increased aircraft utilization and increased ASMs can be flown with the current headcount.

However, it remains to be seen if the RC4 are more serious about the DC Plan, ERIPS, early notational account payments, and sick bank cash out, which all increase the company's CASM, or helping to rebuild the airline into a competitive business enterprise.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[USA320Pilot]

In an email to a fellow pilot, which was Cc'ed to the MEC and myself, Pittsburgh Captain Rep Fred Freshwater said, "Send your drivel to someone who cares what YOU have to say in your typical manner of disrespectful discourse."

USA320Pilot comments: This says it all. If a pilot disagrees with Freshwater he states "send your drivel to someone who cares what YOU have to say." That speaks it all because it's all about Fred who could care less about US Airways, the pilot group, or 28,000 employees, as long as he gets his lump sum regardless if it comes from a lawsuit or cash payment by the company.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[funguy2]

In an email to a fellow pilot, which was Cc'ed to the MEC and myself, Pittsburgh Captain Rep Fred Freshwater said, "Send your drivel to someone who cares what YOU have to say in your typical manner of disrespectful discourse."

This from the guy who says:

"You are dead wrong."

and

"I don't have time to read other people's posts"

and

"Respectfully"

Sometimes, those in glass cockpits should not throw stones...

 

[USA320Pilot]

There is a difference between a MEC Rep who "represents" a union member and the participation on a public message board. An elected official has the responsibility to listen to all views, regardless if they differ from there own, versus a message board poster who elects to not read thousands of messages.

MEC Reps have a responsibility that is not required on a message board.

The point is Freshwater and the other member's of the RC4 could care less what other's say, whether it's a rank-and-file member, ALPA president, ALPA board member, MEC chairman, vice-chairman, MEC secretary-treasurer, MEC financial advisors, ALPA E&FA, MEC legal advisors, MEC bankruptcy counsel, and the majority of the MEC.

The RC4 are acting against the advice of everybody listed above and are seeking cash pay outs to the senior members of the pilot group. Furthermore, Freshwater is suing ALPA as a sitting member of the MEC to get rank-and-file pilots to give him a cash award through an assesment.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[savyinvestor]

At least he didn't write a piece in the Newspaper. That is mild compared to someone who would do that. Savy

 

[ELP_WN_Psgr]

Thanks, fun guy, or fungi (whichever you prefer).

I was fixing to quote the pot: "kettle, you're black."

A few minor ramblings.

I think I could pick a whole lot of people to quote before I would quote Bertrand Russell.

Better to quote Rosalind Russell, or Jack Russell (the guy who invented those dogs) but Bertrand Russell? That's about as noble an individual as Madalyn Murray O'Hair.

The fact that four people are forcing the issue while eight capitualte doesn't mean the four are wrong, nor does it even mean they are failing to represent the views of the people they were eletced to represent.

It reminds me a little bit of Vichy France......everyone was willing to go along to get along with the Germans, until the German war machine fell on bad times, then everybody and his brother were members of le resistance.

If I were the pilot who has posted on here quite a bit (if you know who I mean and I think you do) I would have to ask myself these questions.....

Is Management negotiating in good faith?

If they are, why are they attempting to prevent disclosure of management compensation and retirement plans in that 10k filing ro whatever it is?

Can you trust this management? Really trust them? Or do you just want to trust them because you think you have no other options?

Does throwing a really shabby contract on the table and issuing an ultimatum constitute bargaining?

My advice, and it isn't worth much.....would be to grow a pair and shut 'er down and take your chances with a judge in bankruptcy court. From a casual and outside observer's point of view......a judge is a heckuva lot more trustworthy than the alleged managers you've got running (and ruining) the company.

 

[USA320Pilot]

There is a difference from exercising your constitutional right by writing an OpEd column than ignoring your constituents as an elected official.

In regard to the RC4 that tell rank-and-file members and the MEC, "Send your drivel to someone who cares what YOU have to say", I find it interesting that four men, of which a couple are "rookies" and are suing over 3,000 other pilots, that they believe they know more than 25 other key ALPA members or advisors.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[delldude]

The company's last proposal said, "Since the immediate furlough of pilots is neither practicable nor in the parties’ mutual interest, the Company will meet and discuss with ALPA various strategies to reduce the furlough of, or avoid recall of, pilots so long as such strategies, when implemented, do not increase expense for the Company.

so i guess IAM winning the bus arbitration will really make them happy,eh?

 

[Walmartgreeter]

There is a difference from exercising your constitutional right by writing an OpEd column than ignoring your constituents as an elected official.

In regard to the RC4 who have members that tell rank-and-file members and the MEC, "Send your drivel to someone who cares what YOU have to say", I find it interesting that four men, of which a couple are "rookies" and are suing over 3,000 other pilots, that they believe they know more than 25 other key ALPA members or advisors.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="173625"][/post]​

Is there some reason you are not airing this on the ALPA web site? Also, Freshwater does NOT represent you. He is in a different base...remember? You have publically called him "stupid" and called him a "dictator"....right here on this forum. What else would you expect? And I will make the same point again...it was most of those 25 other key alpa that allowed U pilots pensions to get to the point of termination. Go figure! Greeter.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Just one more thought...

Is it true leadership and fair representation when a Rep says to a member, "Send your drivel to someone who cares what YOU have to say?"

Funguy2, Savy, ELP_WN_Psgr, and others, in your opinion is it appropriate leadership and representation to ignore people who have a different opinion?

Respectfully,

USA320pilot

 

[ELP_WN_Psgr]

It depends.

Sometimes you have to ignore the will of the majority and do the right thing.

If you went back to the mid 50s I think the majority of the American public, predominantly lilly white, all smoking filter tips, living in ranch style houses, and driving cars with fins....would have been more than happy to keep schools segregated.

The majority was white and the majority was prejudiced and the majority was not overwhelmingly concerned with the civil rights of non-whites.

The Supreme Court issued Brown v Board of Education of Topeka and the rest is history. Our society has moved forward, embraced civil rights, and we are all better people for having done so.

But the MAJORITY didn't get what they wanted. They were forced to do what was right against their will.

This may be a similar situation. Time will tell. Perhaps the Fab Four are absolutely certain that they are on the side of truth, goodness, justice, and the American way.

Bottom line, 320, is just because you disagree with their stance doesn't mean that they are wrong.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Walmartgreeter:

The Communications Committee has stopped using the ALPA Message Board to provide information because the RC4 have placed inaccurate information on the forum. Bill Pollock has warned them 3 days about this issue and instead of having inaccurate information posted by primarily the Philadelphia Reps, the forum is not being used except for about 20 posters, according to EIS committee reports.

This forum is a better vehicle to discuss these issues because it reaches more people. I have never called anybody stupid and yes, I have said Freshwater and the other 3 members of the RC4 are dictators, with every vote “roll calledâ€￾ after a recess for a private caucus without the other MEC members or advisors able to hear the discussion.

The pension was not given away, it was changed to permit the company to come out of bankruptcy, and the bankruptcy court agreed to this point. Freshwater’s agenda is simple: sue the membership for a lump sum payment and seek cash payments from the company for an ERIP, early notational account payouts, sick bank cash out, expanded vacation flyback, etc, which he and the others listed in a recent letter to the NC made public to the pilot group.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Mwereplanes:


Bertrand Russell once said, "The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt," which accurately describes the MEC.

.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

[post="173577"][/post]​

Ok, one more time 320. Are you calling them "stupid" or not? I look forward to your reply. Greeter.

 

[RowUnderDCA]

well, there are a lot of disputes on this board. But is anyone going to answer the charge that 'Freshwater is suing over the cancellation of the DB pension?'

That is an interesting fact. Is he suing U or U and ALPA? Is ALPA also suing?