HPearlyretiree
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Of course they won't, they are only happy if they can complain, whine and moan.
Honestly, its a big world out there, full of rewarding jobs for those who seek happiness....
JAMAKE1
Veteran
Clearly, you've missed the point as well. So let me put it in laymen's terms. They are complaining, whining, and moaning, because their high STANDARDS (for themselves and their once-proud airline) run contrary to the Las Vegas-style cheese mentality that is now running the show at Americ, I mean, LCC. Ah, forget it. You wouldn't understand...
(EMB, US1, Piney, Art...I feel ya.)
Its frustrating for West employees to have to listen to continual complaints about how US Airways 'WAS". All of the cuts, service reductions, food changes all took place when US was a different airline. One of the big problems on this board is the fact that some people haven't figured out that their "grand" US Airways...is no longer around. Its a new airline, with an old name, a very old name and getting older everyday
it's ok to be "world class" but not if you're going bankrupt doing it. I think US has already been down that road.
it's ok to be "world class" but not if you're going bankrupt doing it. I think US has already been down that road.
beachboy
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It' frustrating for us BOB to hear you SPIN a crappy product and defend people who don't deserve to be in management. It's like renting someone a BWM and then giving them a Yugo when they show up. But you think it still ok to charge them the BMW rate because you hung an air freshener and dice on the mirror to spruce it up. So chalk it up to low class vs. high class.
2clippedwings
Veteran
Then why doesn't this company communicate to us exactly what passenger profile their spreadsheets indicate this "service" would please?
Because it IS NOT the market I serve on board. I see business people in major metropolitan areas needing reliable transportation, preferably with a place to hang their coats, place their belongings, read a newspaper, eat a snack, and have a stiff drink.
Grand? I wouldn't have used that word but in comparison to the "product" we're offering now, ANYTHING better could be considered grand.
Arrogant, short-sighted, immature, inexperienced, cavalier and clueless. The poorly executed projects since the attempted merger could set us up for another possible bankruptcy. Wouldn't surprise me a bit.
What is your response to the DOT figures? I know, it's the air traffic control system. Finger pointing at its best.
Communicate a realistic attainable goal to employees. Give them the tools they require. Watch what happens.
marco90821
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Do they buy the IFEs at a flea market with all the caked on food and scratches built in?
Ummm..I think you need to check out the other US carrier biz class seats. UA is just now beginning an upgrade to their biz cabins that will give them fully lie flat seats (the only US carrier doing this). Otherwise, the majority of the UA intl. biz class is very similar to the US A330.
AA just completed their 767-300 biz class seating upgrade and it's not much different than the US 767-200 seats. They don't lie completely horizontally flat, but they do offer more of a flat recline.
The current DL seats are very similar to the US A330 seats, as well. 160 degrees recline. http://www.delta.com/traveling_checkin/inf...light/index.jsp
Frankly, if the 767 Envoy service levels can be brought up a couple of notches, it really would be something competitive. Especially to the markets it will serve.
I would hope there's a plan for the A330 seats eventually. They are, at most, 7 years old now. When they came out, they were the cream of the crop across the Atlantic and had rave reveiws as a result. With the 332 deliveries starting in 2009, is it possible Tempe might have a plan to upgrade the 333 envoy cabins next year to match the new seating of the 332s?
Art at ISP
Veteran
UWCactus,
You can't spin CHEAP. Tempe knows the cost of everything but the value of NOTHING. You have no idea of the needs and expectations of the East customer because YOU NEVER ASKED. You only aspire to be one step above Greyhound Air, not on par with your real competition in the international arena, the UA's CO's DL's AA's etc. YOU DON'T GET IT BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO.
Wait until the drain of premium revenue shows up on the bottom line. It will happen, because we know that elites are leaving, with many high rollers already gone. I have provided proof to management of that fact.
The sad fact is that CHEAP has cost them much more than the savings they thought they would realize. They have failed at the basic fundamentals--unreliable operations, unacceptable customer service, and now they have both employees AND customers near revolt.
They have a web site which still doesn't work right 16 months after it rolled out.
They have a reservations system which is completely unequipped and inadequate to handle the operation it is being charged with--and 6 months after rollout IT STILL DOESN'T WORK.
If US wants to be a true LCC, then let them go all the way and do it. It will never happen with the current cost structure--it's impossible. When the merger first happened, they said they would take the best of both airlines, when in fact they took the worst.
Bottom line, is they cannot deliver value to the customer if they don't know what value is to their customer.
You cannot manage an international airline with a regional airline mentality. The new Envoy seats are an improvement from what was, but they are inferior to almost every other new product out there..in fact they probably only did it because they got the seats at fire sale prices.
They have been telling me and others for over a year they are starting a customer council, but have never done so....and there is no indication it is forthcoming.
In essence your spin is an insult to the intelligence of your employees and your customers.
I won't waste further bandwidth here, but why don't you get in touch with me off line some time and I will explain it to you step by step.
You can't spin CHEAP. Tempe knows the cost of everything but the value of NOTHING. You have no idea of the needs and expectations of the East customer because YOU NEVER ASKED. You only aspire to be one step above Greyhound Air, not on par with your real competition in the international arena, the UA's CO's DL's AA's etc. YOU DON'T GET IT BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO.
Wait until the drain of premium revenue shows up on the bottom line. It will happen, because we know that elites are leaving, with many high rollers already gone. I have provided proof to management of that fact.
The sad fact is that CHEAP has cost them much more than the savings they thought they would realize. They have failed at the basic fundamentals--unreliable operations, unacceptable customer service, and now they have both employees AND customers near revolt.
They have a web site which still doesn't work right 16 months after it rolled out.
They have a reservations system which is completely unequipped and inadequate to handle the operation it is being charged with--and 6 months after rollout IT STILL DOESN'T WORK.
If US wants to be a true LCC, then let them go all the way and do it. It will never happen with the current cost structure--it's impossible. When the merger first happened, they said they would take the best of both airlines, when in fact they took the worst.
Bottom line, is they cannot deliver value to the customer if they don't know what value is to their customer.
You cannot manage an international airline with a regional airline mentality. The new Envoy seats are an improvement from what was, but they are inferior to almost every other new product out there..in fact they probably only did it because they got the seats at fire sale prices.
They have been telling me and others for over a year they are starting a customer council, but have never done so....and there is no indication it is forthcoming.
In essence your spin is an insult to the intelligence of your employees and your customers.
I won't waste further bandwidth here, but why don't you get in touch with me off line some time and I will explain it to you step by step.
Elevation
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vantheman63
Senior
Okay...lets say I give you this....lets say "you're right."
Then, here's the disconnect: "This airline charges "world class" prices for a "business casual" product." (Sub par, sub standard, crappy product.)
Let's imagine this, shall we?
You go to the clothier to buy a Hart Schaffner Marx "business suit" and you pay , oh, $800 for the suit. And it looks great, does well, etc.
Now you think, "I'm going to get some business casual" clothes. So, you to go buy some Dockers khakis.....and they still cost $800 or heck, they cost $600.
Would you not feel a little ripped off buying those "business casual" clothes at the same price a real clothier charges for business formal prices
Someone ealier used the "BMW/Yugo" example....which also applies.
Let be honest here and face it: "This management team has done a HORRIFFIC job of positioning and producing this product." They've taken the art of "under-promise, over-deliver" and completely flipped it around....to over-promising and under-delivering.
Part of how you "position a prodcut" is done by pricing...Ahhh! there's a problem...people will follow you on that, so you have to be careful and not build your business on "pricing' because someone can ALWAYS leverage productivity and effeciencies to lower the cost. Instead, you are best differentiating your product (and therefore your positioning) from a "quality" and "value" proposition.
US Airways/Tempe philosophy has gone exactly counter to that....and then and done the unthinkable: Blamed it on their customers. We're the idiots, we're the cheap bastards who won't pay....well guess what? BullSH$T!!!
I've simply shifted my flying over to other carriers....and guess what? I ALWAYS buy full price, premium products...I'm not afraid to open my pocketbook for a $3,000 T/A ticket....of a $1,600 Transcon ticket....despite the stupidity of the Sand Castle.
Meanwhile many people not unlike yourself, continue in denial.
Which is totally cool...it doesn't affect me in the least, because I can leave. I just feel bad for the people who've made a carreer out of it and are humiliated and embarrassed by a company that took, oh, $30,000 plus of my flying dollar and delivered a truly unacceptable product...and then told me I was wrong to feel ripped off.
If denial works for you....and others with your mindset, very cool. Just do me a favor and stop telling me and other customers like me I can and should accept less because "Us could go bankrupt" while CO and UA produce and deliver a MUCH superior product....and make a profit doing it.
Molto Grazie!
I really want some of the drugs you take - everytime you post to this board I am jealous that your drugs seem to be the best because your posts are so laughable.
What no one seems to be talking about is that even though they are getting new seats on 67's - there are going to be less of them. Only 18 instead of 24.
So if indeed they were so "good at what they do" as you say - and could actually come up with a premium product people would be willing to pay for - why would they reduce the number of seats by 25%? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm - let's see - maybe because no one in their right mind would pay for US premium service - unless of course you shared your drugs with them before they made their reservation!
vantheman63
Senior
Bingo!
Instead, we get this f-ing MADDENING, non-accountable, jacka$$ management team blaming the customers.....while the other "real" airlines continue investing in premium products and services.
EXCELLENT point....
If I had a quarter for everything I've heard this management team say I won't do and traveling pax and customers won't pay for, I could probably buy my own B762.
The fact that these westies think that having a product that even tries to compete with other AMERICAN carriers is "grand" says alot about how insulated they are in the industry. Coming from a dirty, cheaply run Vegas vacation style airline where cheap as possible is drilled into your head you can see how anything above a domestic first class product seems lavish to them.
They do not know the market and do not understand it. They do not understand the brutal competition from foriegn, mostly state-owned carriers, who are able to and do offer something "grand". American carriers know they can not be an Emirates, Virgin Atlantic, or Singapore, but they need to hold thier own or get creamed. The domestic market is over save for a few surviving legacies, and mostly point to point (real) LCC service. US Airways has the highest costs in the industry, its ticker symbol is a joke, they will never be an low cost carrier, they are a network legacy carrier. International is where the money is for legacies- still attracts a premium and no LCC competition or even the possibility of it.
They don't understand that US Airways has a huge advantage and disadvantage in the transatlantic market. 40% of TA travelers originate east of the Mississippi. US Airways is the biggest airline east of the MS, carrying more passengers through two major hubs, and has extremely valuable slots and real estate in some of the busiest airspace in the world. They have a hub in a major US port city that is geographically a perfect gateway, has high demand for intl travel, and lucrative cargo.
They have the disadvantage of being a very late player to the game. They are historically known as a short haul airline, not an international carrier. They by far have the smallest intl presence of the Big Six, with no South America, and are the only with no transpacific service at all. They have the disadvantage of a poorly set-up hub airport and uncooperative city officials. They have a miniscule fleet of only 19 widebodies, by far the smallest of the majors, 10 of which are ancient 767-200s. Thier transatlantic gateway sits between New York and Washington, two even higher O&D markets. The New York market, an hour away, is the number one gateway to and from Europe in the country. Finally, again, highest costs in the industry, so US Airways needs to charge the same or more than it's US competition for both it's economy and premium product.
This is an airline that needs to pull it's socks up and start competing. They cannot be an LCC, and they are the lamest duck of the Big Six.
They do not know the market and do not understand it. They do not understand the brutal competition from foriegn, mostly state-owned carriers, who are able to and do offer something "grand". American carriers know they can not be an Emirates, Virgin Atlantic, or Singapore, but they need to hold thier own or get creamed. The domestic market is over save for a few surviving legacies, and mostly point to point (real) LCC service. US Airways has the highest costs in the industry, its ticker symbol is a joke, they will never be an low cost carrier, they are a network legacy carrier. International is where the money is for legacies- still attracts a premium and no LCC competition or even the possibility of it.
They don't understand that US Airways has a huge advantage and disadvantage in the transatlantic market. 40% of TA travelers originate east of the Mississippi. US Airways is the biggest airline east of the MS, carrying more passengers through two major hubs, and has extremely valuable slots and real estate in some of the busiest airspace in the world. They have a hub in a major US port city that is geographically a perfect gateway, has high demand for intl travel, and lucrative cargo.
They have the disadvantage of being a very late player to the game. They are historically known as a short haul airline, not an international carrier. They by far have the smallest intl presence of the Big Six, with no South America, and are the only with no transpacific service at all. They have the disadvantage of a poorly set-up hub airport and uncooperative city officials. They have a miniscule fleet of only 19 widebodies, by far the smallest of the majors, 10 of which are ancient 767-200s. Thier transatlantic gateway sits between New York and Washington, two even higher O&D markets. The New York market, an hour away, is the number one gateway to and from Europe in the country. Finally, again, highest costs in the industry, so US Airways needs to charge the same or more than it's US competition for both it's economy and premium product.
This is an airline that needs to pull it's socks up and start competing. They cannot be an LCC, and they are the lamest duck of the Big Six.
Which is exactly why, when I want to fly across the pond, I transfer American Express Miles to my Continental Mileage Plus account and book BusinessFirst to Europe out of Newark. I rarely, if ever fly Continental out of Phila, and certainly have no status, but they sure beat US hands down - even their coach product to Europe, with the exception of the seat, beats Envoy on US. (But - at least the seat works on CO - and a working seat on US is certainly not a guarantee!)
Envoy isn't even worth a free ticket anymore.
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