US-East Observation Rides In Full Force

[USCREW]

I read this whole thread and am amazed at how nasty people can be to each other when they don’t have to look them in they eyes or use their real names. SAD

Let’s clear a few things up…

1. There is nothing on our ID’s that will shut down the airline, and I see everyday people walking around in secure areas without one and always say something to them and always get the “I’ve got four fn heads†look back.
2. If you can’t press your shirt for work and follow the uniform/service guidelines maybe this isn’t the place for you.
3. I have my name on my Apron because I am PROUD of the job I am doing and don’t mind, and actually enjoy the customers calling me by my name.
4. The FAR 121.391 about the doors reads “During takeoff and landing, flight attendants required by this section shall be located as near as practicable to required floor level exists and shall be uniformly distributed throughout the airplane in order to provide the most effective egress of passengers in event of an emergency evacuation. During taxi, flight attendants required by this section must remain at their duty stations with safety belts and shoulder harnesses fastened except to perform duties related to the safety of the airplane and its occupants.†Also Sec. 121.577 Stowage of food, beverage, and passenger service equipment during airplane movement on the surface, takeoff, and landing. a. No certificate holder may move an airplane on the surface, take off, or land when any food, beverage, or tableware furnished by the certificate holder is located at any passenger seat. b. No certificate holder may move an airplane on the surface, take off, or land unless each food and beverage tray and seat back tray table is secured in its stowed position. c. No certificate holder may permit an airplane to move on the surface, take off, or land unless each passenger serving cart is secured in its stowed position.
5. Recent news reports say that with the merger US Airways operates 3800 flights per day. Stabbing at a guess of filled seats fleet wide let’s use a good round # of 100. That’s 380,000 people; now say we pay .25 per can of soda that’s $95,000 per day in a year that adds up to $34,675,000.00. 34 million is a lot of cash for not following the procedure. Granted I don’t know what we pay for a can of soda but even if we only pay a Nickel that’s still $6,935,000.00 you get the point.
6. Here is how the P&P reads about Pre-departure Drinks: “2.7.1 Flight Attendant Boarding Duties. During the boarding process flight attendants:
• Greet customers.
• On First Class equipped aircraft the forward-positioned flight attendant(s):
• Hang First Class customer coats and/or jackets.
• Serve pre-departure beverages on all Aircraft
• Assist customers in locating their seats and stowing carry-on luggage, as needed.
• Answer questions and handle situations that require special attention.
• Distribute pillows and/or blankets.
• When applicable, provide seat belt extensions in a discreet manner.
• Monitor overhead bins for space availability. Advise the agent if the overhead compartments are filled prior to final boarding so that additional carry-on bags may be checked, except for items that will fit under the seat.
• Make the “General Boarding†announcement several times during the boarding process. If the flight is at capacity, instruct customers to place smaller carry-on items beneath the seat in front of them and reserve the overhead compartments for larger carry on items.
• Resolve duplicate seat assignments.

While I understand that many of these were written when our staffing levels were better, and it was much easier to get many of these things accomplished, much of what the “core†job is has not changed at all. The biggest thing I have seen is that some people don’t use common sense in the job function. If you can't get through the entire cabin of the A321, apologize and tell the customers you couldn't get to that you will be happy to get their orders in the air and get back into the function of the job by collection the things you did serve for take-off. When you get in the air give the rows you missed their drinks FIRST before you start with the prescribed service for the flight.

Let’s start working together, not against each other. And everyone should have there name on the uniform Apron. And observation rides should result in discipline if the situation warrants.

Hi Andy,

I do observation rides and am looking forward to experiencing your fabulous predeparture service Mr.81224. About ID's, Have you ever heard of PTI's? Were you listening in recurrent?

 

[USAirBoyA330]

The C F/A is suppose to be at 2L assisting coach and the aft section of 1st class. If they are in the galley having coffee I will chew them a new one. 1 flight attendant stationed at every set of doors. The boarding door being the MOST important to be covered at all times. 4 doors on the 321....4 flight attendants. Not sure where the confusion is. But still....you know I think the world of you! 😉

 

[andyperkins]

Hi Andy,

I do observation rides and am looking forward to experiencing your fabulous predeparture service. About ID's, Have you ever heard of PTI's? Were you listening in recurrent?

Can't wait! What color are your shoes so I can make sure to have enough polish with me.

I didn’t' say anything about my condoning wearing the ID on the A/C. My comment was to share my thoughts that maybe we f/a’s get a little crazy sometimes. (Kind of how I am at the moment with the carry-on’s)

I do remember recurrent training and I don’t wear my ID on the A/C nor should anyone else.

 

[USCREW]

Can't wait! What color are your shoes so I can make sure to have enough polish with me.

I didn’t' say anything about my condoning wearing the ID on the A/C. My comment was to share my thoughts that maybe we f/a’s get a little crazy sometimes. (Kind of how I am at the moment with the carry-on’s)

I do remember recurrent training and I don’t wear my ID on the A/C ,should anyone else.

My shoes are black 81224, thank-you.

 

[700UW]

The reason US does not use the L2 door is the jetway will hit the engine, I believe this is a good enough reason to use the L1 door.

US was having problems with improper parking of the A321 every A321 was labeled on the outside so the ground crew knows what fleet type it is.

 

[USCREW]

Then youre doing something wrong! The specs say "Pre Departure Drink". I can't recall exactly how it's done but last time on the A321 someone was at the front door AND predeparture drinks, coats and all the things described in the specs were completed. Full F cabin and nearly full in coach. 12 empty seats IIRC.

The crews that work together and hustle pull this off flawlessly and now that I know it's part of the spec I'll be more vocal when it doesn't get done. I just figured it was US trying to save a buck in bad times. Now I see otherwise.

The company needs people who will follow their guidelines and rules right along with the ones from FAA, not follow one set to the exclusion. Adhearing to Service Standards (Whatever they may be) are the key to growth & success going forward. If that can't happen with the current group then they need to hire those who will.

The only way to do this and comply with FAA is to have another F/A upfront. I don't believe that you are airline, and most definitely not crew, because you would understand this. There are eight exits on the 321 and four F/A's. We are at absolute minimum staffing and we are not doing anything "wrong". You need a little more information before telling us the "specs" about our jobs, and when you decide to become more "vocal" onboard, make sure you know what you are talking about otherwise you are part of the problem.

 

[700UW]

Guidelines, not rules, big difference.

The FARs trump any company "guidelines".

 

[Dorf]

Managements job is to monitor, direct & inspect employee performance and in this case service guidelines and if the managers can't manage than it's also time to get ones who can. I'm not blaming all of the F/A's but if Inflight Management doesn't clearly communicate their expectations then how are the F/A's supposed to comply. If there is no enforcement, why would they comply?

It is also the job of management to make sure there are enough people to do the job. Those "guidelines" are just that, Guidelines. FAR's are rules which must be followed. Besides, the service "guidelines" were probably written when there were more "bodies" working the flight and management hasn't seen fit to adjust them to the Reality of the situation.

Dorf

 

[andyperkins]

Guidelines, not rules, big difference.

The FARs trump any company "guidelines".

What’s interesting is that our F/A’s are directly violating a FAR by leaving the bottle of water at the F seats during take-off and landing, but will argue about the “assumedâ€￾ door rule. If the FAA wants to give me a hard time about moving away from the door for pre departure, I would respectfully request to see the FAR rule that specifically reads that the F/A is not to leave the door prior to A/C movement.

We leave our doors prior to surface movement to get the count, assist in the cabin with seats/ bags/check luggage stowage… As I read the FAR, the time before A/C movement we can be anywhere in the cabin to complete the required duties necessary before surface movement.

 

[BajaBabe]

Why do we all have to turn on one another. Everyone wants to help out and do predeparture it makes for the first moment of truth. Guys don't start up with the water bottles, it places all of us in a negative light. As far as an OPR helping out that is Contractual . I know that if I work that particular a/c I will before going on board check out the passenger manifest and make sure that all the 5 Stars get whatever I can hustle out.Keeping in mind that the FAA has spoken.

 

[SKY HIGH]

The crews that work together and hustle pull this off flawlessly and now that I know it's part of the spec I'll be more vocal when it doesn't get done.
The company needs people who will follow their guidelines and rules right along with the ones from FAA, not follow one set to the exclusion. Adhearing to Service Standards .

Sky high states: It amazes me what passengers see. HUSTLE?.......remember that? Anyone. Breakfast trays from PHL to PIT? Golden Sun Service (Predeparture drink in COACH on Florida flights) then, Beverage, TRAY, second beverage. Three MEAL choices to the West Coast.
SERVICE is minimal now. Those trays got done on the PHL to PIT route (50 minute flight)because the F/A's "hustled".
They CARED. They did it with precision.

 

[desertgal]

Andy makes a good point as far as FAs picking and choosing which FARs they will follow.
Most all FAs do it to a certain degree.
And, actually, when an airline submits its policies and procedures to the FAA for approval, they then become FARS for that airline.
Now, I'm not talking so much service stuff, but for instance, the FAA reg for consuming alcohol before report for duty is 8hours.
At West, its 12hours. This is the FAR for West.

I'm thinking there may be some misinterpretation at East as to what being near the door means.
Does it mean you are chained to the door and can not move more than an arms length away?
At West, the fwd FA can be as far back as the overwing exit on Airbus319/320 and 737, and as far as row 8 on the 757.
The aft FA can come forward as far as overwing on the Airbus and 737.
On the 737 and Airbus, the 2nd FA has no boarding door, so they are generally busy in the cabin with the baggage, seat dupes, etc.
They do try to remain forward during predeparture bevvie in order to greet while the 1st is serving, but its not always possible if theres specials in main cabin.

But I think this goes back to the poor mgmnt East has had these last few years.
Plus perhaps more bases to get on the same page.
West has only one base, so its easy to get all FAs educated and familiar with procedures.
I believe this is the point of the observation rides.
Mebbe to see who does and dosen't know policy and procedure, and what areas need a little more education.
They can discover the areas that are farthest off the mark, and start with those.

 

[SKY HIGH]

4.The FAR 121.391 about the doors reads “During takeoff and landing, flight attendants required by this section shall be located as near as practicable to required floor level exists and shall be uniformly distributed throughout the airplane in order to provide the most effective egress of passengers in event of an emergency evacuation.

sky high states: Monitoring the Front door is important at all times. Not just for a possible evac. situation.
Knowing who COMES ON, and WHO MAY TRY TO GET OFF AGAIN is paramount to SAFETY/SECURITY. If an F/A is at row 8, they may not see someone get on, place their bag over row 1 and deplane. What's in the bag? Who left the aircraft? Everyone want to stake their lives on TSA screening being 100%?

 

[700UW]

An airline's policy does not become an FAR when submitted to the FAA.

An FAR is Federal Air Regulation written by the FAA, not the airline.

The Company submitting its rules to the FAA is how the airline will run its business, not FARs.

 

[hp_fa]

Out West.

In a normal boarding for a 737/320/319 that is booked to or at capacity there is 35 minutes to board the plane. If booked below capacity there is 30 minutes. The 2nd FA is up front for the first 5 minutes and drinks can easily be accomplished. However, if the inbound aircraft is late arriving or there has been a maintenance delay without passengers already aboard they are going to board the flight as fast as they can and get it out as fast as they can. The first reason is to minimize the delay for the passengers on that flight. The second reason is for all the other people due to fly that plane that day, especially if the plane was already due to have minimum ground times for the future flights that day. The third reason is that gate may be needed for oher flights that are now sitting out on the tarmac somewhere.

Last I knew, West was to discontinue beverage service 15 minutes before departure. If I was in a hurry up and go situation, I would normally pre-pour cups of ice water for my FC customers and hand them out very quickly, along with an explanation and apology for the abbreviated pre-departure service and an assurance that I would be out of my jump seat and seeing to beverages as soon as I could, either 10,000' or when the Captain says FA's can get up if it is bumpy. I would then do exactly that as soon as I got up. The apron would go on and the drinks would be served immediately. Probably 97% of customers would understand and appreciate the hustle and the honesty. My main job in that scenario was the safety (including security) of the cabin and getting it boarded as fast as possible.

(BTW, if you have ever seen gate agents power board a flight in PHX or LAS on a summer day you also know that a huge line forms in that hot metal tube knownas a jetway. The last thing you want to do is have people standing in that oven for more then 1-2 minutes.)

In a fast boarding scenario the second would normally not even be at the front of the plane, but would be in the cabin being **very** proactive in resolving any issues, such as bags, car seats, special assistence passengers, etc. Remember, when airline schedules are written they are normally written for when things normally go correctly with no serious monkey wrenches thrown in. Mechanicals, late arrivals due to very bad weather or markedly different winds aloft from what is the norm for that time of year (which is what the schedules are, in part, predicated on, cause all kinds of problems in getting the aircraft out and meeting the normal customer service guidelines.

I'll share on question I always wanted to ask customers when I worked but obviously could not ask them while I was employed as a FA. Why wouldn't people go to the restroom in the terminal before they got on the airplane? The restrooms are nicer and more comfortable in the airport and since you already knew there was a delay, why not just go to the bathroom as soon as you saw the inbound plane taxiing to the gate. You would always have 7-15 minutes then, especially if there was a cabin crew change just to get the plane unloaded, "cleaned" and preflighted.

An airline's policy does not become an FAR when submitted to the FAA.

An FAR is Federal Air Regulation written by the FAA, not the airline.

The Company submitting its rules to the FAA is how the airline will run its business, not FARs.

Wrong.

The FOM, IOM and the other operational mauals and procedures are incorporated by reference into the FAR's.