Us May Be Here Aft 1/14, But Not Spring 05

[US1YFARE]

They say that last week's fiasco could be the last time US gets to disappoint travelers. According to MSNBC, ALMOST back to normal.

Mentions USAVIATION.COM and the "warning" to US about the impending "sickout". MSNBC blames the union workers, not the unions.

MSNBC: "Why hurt the customer?" "What they did was a suicide pact."

Book your miles on a Star Alliance carrier on a paper ticket. They may be around after 1/14, but probably not into the Spring.

 

[GadgetFreak]

They say that last week's fiasco could be the last time US gets to disappoint travelers. According to MSNBC, ALMOST back to normal.

Mentions USAVIATION.COM and the "warning" to US about the impending "sickout". MSNBC blames the union workers, not the unions.

MSNBC: "Why hurt the customer?" "What they did was a suicide pact."

Book your miles on a Star Alliance carrier on a paper ticket. They may be around after 1/14, but probably not into the Spring.

[post="233049"][/post]​

This is part of the really bad cycle that I am afraid will develop. Lots of news articles saying that US wont be around for long. So I want to buy tickets for upcoming trips on US. I really do. But I absolutely have to be back in my office on a certain day. What if US goes out while I am away and Im late? My boss, having seen these articles takes it out on me for being stupid enough to buy a ticket on US when they were in danger. There isnt a whole lot of trust in US right now. Either to get you where you are going or to be in business in general.

As for the miles. There is no guarantee that a Star Alliance carrier will accept an award ticket with US miles after US has liquidated. They might, but they might not.

 

[reznc]

Gadgetfreak, you are correct. People quote a bill that was passed after 9/11 that other airlines have to pick up any airline tkts that go out of business, including mileage tkts wherever possible. Dont worry there are some good "outs" for the other airlines not to even pick up a revenue tkt. The question is, go tell that to an overseas airline, and see where it gets you. I promise Lufthansa and Singapore won't touch a Ch7's airlines ticket.

 

[Winglet]

Gadgetfreak, you are correct. People quote a bill that was passed after 9/11 that other airlines have to pick up any airline tkts that go out of business, including mileage tkts wherever possible. Dont worry there are some good "outs" for the other airlines not to even pick up a revenue tkt. The question is, go tell that to an overseas airline, and see where it gets you. I promise Lufthansa and Singapore won't touch a Ch7's airlines ticket.

[post="233091"][/post]​

I dunno. After liquidation, some of the other airlines might honor miles on a space available basis in order to attract some of U's former regular customers. As far as tickets go, they'll probably honor them (space avail, of course), but the proviso will be they have to be paper tickets.

I think a prudent strategy for a U customer is:

1. Don't travel on U if you have a "must be there" intinerary.
2. Do not use electronic tickets.
3. Booking tickets past the end of January involves a fair degree of risk of losing your ticket.
4. Do not expect foreign airlines to honor any part of U tickets or FF miles after a shutdown.

 

[basher]

all star awards are on paper tix (not UA) we do not hold e ticket agreements with international carriers.

US charges a paper ticket fee of $50.00 per ticket if its e ticket elg

the bill from9/11 is going to expire soon

the news has been saying all of this since the first bankruptcy ... the media never lets the truth get away of a good story

on a side note the star link has been down since monday off and on... kinda makes you think than these other carriers dont want our bookings

 

[GadgetFreak]

all star awards are on paper tix (not UA) we do not hold e ticket agreements with international carriers.

US charges a paper ticket fee of $50.00 per ticket if its e ticket elg

the bill from9/11 is going to expire soon

the news has been saying all of this since the first bankruptcy ... the media never lets the truth get away of a good story

on a side note the star link has been down since monday off and on... kinda makes you think than these other carriers dont want our bookings

[post="233272"][/post]​

The bill from Sept 11 has been extended but I dont think it applies to foreign flights (even on US carriers) or to award tickets. There has been one report that SQ told someone that they would honor their award ticket although it is hard to put much confidence in that report. Bottom line is no one knows what will happen with award tickets.

 

[chele5]

Once an airline ticket is issued for travel on a specific airline (other than US), regardless if it is a mileage award or purchased ticket, and the ticket is issued prior to the date of liquidation, the carrier that is providing transportation will accept that ticket as it was written when it is written on US ticket stock.

Most tickets that are issued in this manner are award tickets. For domestic flights, the tickets are issued as eletronic and for a fee, you can request paper. Don't lose the paper ticket. After a liquidation occurs you will be hard pressed to have it replaced by any airline. Most domestic airlines have interline e-ticket agreements (where you can have more that one airline on an e-ticket or give that eticket to another airline to protect the passenger during a flight cancellation). This could affect how e-tickets are handled during a liquidation.

Hopefully we will not come to this and we can pull through it, even if I can't be a part of it, I still don't want to see this airline no longer exist.

 

[WorldTraveler]

As was said, the industry norm has been for one airline to honor tickets if the airline that issued the ticket airline fails. Even foreign airlines would incur a tremendous amount of ill will if they decide they will not honor tickets issued by US.

From a financial standpoint, UA is the carrier that would probably most want to not honor US tickets and they probably have no choice but to accept them unless they want to incur the wrath of Washington. UA will end up flying passengers with US tickets on UA codeshare flights but will get nothing and UA will also have to deal with all of the passengers booked on US flights but ticketed by UA. In the former case, UA won’t get paid. In the latter case, UA might be forced to give the passengers to another airline (likely Delta since, compared to other carriers, they serve more of the places UA doesn’t but which are served by US).

If US shuts down, this would be the first major shutdown that took place since electronic tickets became the norm. There are bound to be lots of US passengers with electronic tickets that do not have another airline’s space on them and thus could be “lostâ€￾. Since other airlines wouldn’t get paid to carry US passengers if they are ticketed on US stock, I suppose they would accept a US e-ticket receipt as evidence someone held a US ticket and then carry them on a standby basis (which is I believe all they have to do). I believe the requirements to assist other airline passengers does not include international passengers which is something that might explain why Caribbean passengers (where US has added a lot of flights recently) might be reluctant to book on USAirways.

 

[Cosmo]

UA will end up flying passengers with US tickets on UA codeshare flights but will get nothing ...

I'm not so sure that's true. First, remember that the UA-US code-share agreement states that the fares for these tickets will go to the operating carrier, which in this case would be United. Second, the credit card companies are substantially collateralized for their payables to US, as reflected at least in part by the level of restricted cash, precisely to prevent the scenario you outlined above. Upon a US liquidation, the credit card companies would take the cash collateral to pay off United and any other operating carriers. Third, I would imagine that a significant amount of the fares would not yet have been paid by the credit card companies to US (given the usual 30-to-60 day lag in payments), so once again, those funds would simply be paid to United and the other operating carriers. And fourth, the airlines operate a clearinghouse to net out charges and credits among the carriers, so United and other carriers would simply withhold whatever they owed to US. And, at least in United's case, US couldn't claim they had to be paid in any event due to their bankrupt status because United could make the same claim.

In all likelihood, United would still take something of a financial hit from a US liquidation, but I don't believe it will be anywhere near as bad as you postulate. JMHO.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Cosmo,
You may be right about some of the protections but I don't think anywhere close to many of the protections are in place. Yes, credit card companies are holding back more revenue from US than is usual in the industry but a quick check of US' most recent 10Q shows they had nearly $1B in air traffic liabilities which is revenue on hand but services not delivered. $1B amounts to about 2/3 of US' quarterly revenue. The credit card companies do not have $1B of revenue held back or that much collateral.

Since I haven't quoted a real figure, I'm not sure how you can compare what you think will be the hit to what I think it will be. There is no doubt that a passenger holding a ticket with a UA coded flight operated by US is going to look to UA to sort out their mess and not AA, CO, DL, or WN. Likewise, passengers with a UA operated but US issued ticket are not at all going to take kindly if UA indicates that they don't want to carry those passengers. You'll recall that UA already wrote off a significant amount of revenue as a result of AC's bankruptcy. When UA plays with unstable partners such as US and even Varig, they might be doing it again.

Just as significant as the revenue that is lost in bankruptcy is who stands to gain new revenue if US shutdown. I would guess that the revenue gain will go in order to DL, CO, AA, WN, and then UA, and then Independence.

 

[Cosmo]

Cosmo,
You may be right about some of the protections but I don't think anywhere close to many of the protections are in place. Yes, credit card companies are holding back more revenue from US than is usual in the industry but a quick check of US' most recent 10Q shows they had nearly $1B in air traffic liabilities which is revenue on hand but services not delivered. $1B amounts to about 2/3 of US' quarterly revenue. The credit card companies do not have $1B of revenue held back or that much collateral.

No, but according to US' third quarter 2004 SEC Form 10-Q (page 3), the carrier had restricted cash of $609 million. Since (1) the ATSB loan collateral is the source of US' unrestricted cash, (2) GE is collateralized with aircraft and (3) aircraft deposits are listed separately, I assume most (if not all) of that $609 million in restricted cash is collateral for the credit card companies. And that's plenty to cover United's relatively small exposure for carrying US-ticketed passengers (after all, it makes sense that the credit card companies will be more cooperative with United than a liquidating US).

There is no doubt that a passenger holding a ticket with a UA coded flight operated by US is going to look to UA to sort out their mess and not AA, CO, DL, or WN. Likewise, passengers with a UA operated but US issued ticket are not at all going to take kindly if UA indicates that they don't want to carry those passengers.

I agree that United will have to "sort out their mess" but I stand by my belief that United will ultimately receive a significant share of what it is due from US to carry these passengers (see above). However, the key might be whether or not the credit card companies are currently forwarding the fare revenue to the operating carrier or the ticketing carrier, and I don't know the answer to this question (do you?). I guess we'll have to wait and see.

You'll recall that UA already wrote off a significant amount of revenue as a result of AC's bankruptcy.

Actually, that's not correct. According to United's 3rd quarter 2004 SEC Form 10-Q (page 16), United recorded a "non-operating special charge" of $137 million in the first quarter of 2003 -- a $46 million impairment charge related to United's investment in Air Canada's preferred stock and a $91 million liability resulting from United's guarantee of some of Air Canada's debt. As you can see, there was no write-off due to revenue impairment. Then again, Air Canada didn't liquidate. So if US does liquidate, United might then record a write-off of code-share revenue. But again, we'll have to wait and see.

 

[firstamendment]

Hey Kids,

I am home after a looooong four day trip. As I am mentally exhausted, I am enjoying a bottle of white. If, by chance, I sound uneducated or insane, it may be the wine, but I am speaking from my heart.

I was unfortunate to have a trip that went in and out of PHL every day...going from PHL - PBI and back. Oh, the love it it all. There is no catering in PHL and none in PBI. (except ice) How far do you think the booze and snack basket went on a MIA-PHL-PBI-PHL flight? Every flight was 2 hours late, waiting on bags to be unloaded...blah, blah, blah. I was working first class and I had to dig deep to elevate my wonderful sense of humor to save the flight from revolt.The crew did an outstanding job.

After waiting for "equipment to be moved" for 20 minutes, I sat for the first time and felt a deep sense of sadness. For the first time it REALLY hit me that we were not going to make it. And I then got angry, because I could not believe that any sane human being, baggage handler or f/a could screw over so many people on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day. It is one thing to screw people on their return home, but on Christmas Eve and Day? That is heartless!! Please spare me any excuses. My 21% hurts just as much as yours. I sincerely hope every person who called in sick is investigated. How can any of you guilty of this live with yourself?

The problem with PHL is that it has become a maffiest subworld of hate and intimidation and it has to stop. This company cannot survive with that outdated, ignorant behavior. It's time to grab a sheet of paper and list how financially beneficial PHL really IS to U and how much loss has come the way of U BECAUSE of PHL. I feel it is time to rethink PHL as a hub. PHL should be a focus city with service where there is truly money to be made and move the important connectors back to PIT and more to CLT.

I cannot wait until January 6. I think the judge will slam that gavel with an iron fist. Say goodbye to your jobs and your contract IAM. You have only those few to blame. That behavior may have cost this airline it's survival. ARE YOU HAPPY NOW? DID YOU HAVE A GREAT CHRISTMAS SCREWING YOUR FELLOW EMPLOYEES AND CUSTOMERS? I can say the same for those f/a's that called in sick, especially those reserves with 0-15 hours as of Dec. 24th. You are pathetic. Don't whine to me about not flying.

I left tonight complimented by EVERY customer AND fellow crew member. As much as I hate this company, I refuse to stoop to their level. US Airways cannot have the person that is Me, however many CAVED to the very thing complained about here on a day to day basis. Many of you proved what the company wants the public to believe..that we are overpaid, underworked, entitled boobs.

Go ahead and make ALL the excuses you want. Crawl out of your cowardly hole and talk to the customer about their anger and disapointment. It's easy to screw people over when you can coward behind the scenes and not those you have screwed.

It's just sick and pathedic. Now blast away with your thousands of excuses. :angry: :angry: :down:

 

[US1YFARE]

Hey Kids,

I am home after a looooong four day trip. As I am mentally exhausted, I am enjoying a bottle of white. If, by chance, I sound uneducated or insane, it may be the wine, but I am speaking from my heart.

I was unfortunate to have a trip that went in and out of PHL every day...going from PHL - PBI and make. Oh, the love it it all. There is no catering in PHL and none in PBI. (except ice) How far do you think the booze and snack basket went on a MIA-PHL-PBI-PHL flight? Every flight was 2 hours late, waiting on bags to be unloaded...blah, blah, blah. I was working first class and I had to dig deep to elevate my wonderful sense of humor to save the flight from revolt.The crew did an outstanding job.

After waiting for "equipment to be moved" for 20 minutes, I sat for the first time and felt a deep sense of sadness. For the first time it REALLY hit me that we were not going to make it. And I then got angry, because I could not believe that any sane human being, baggage handler or f/a could screw over so many people on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day. It is one thing to screw people on their return home, but on Christmas Eve and Day? That is heartless!! Please spare me any excuses. My 21% hurts just as much as yours. I sincerely hope every person who called in sick is investigated. How can any of you guilty of this live with yourself?

The problem with PHL is that it has become a maffiest subworld of hate and intimidation and it has to stop. This company cannot survive with that outdated, ignorant behavior. It's time to grab a sheet of paper and list how financially beneficial PHL really IS to U and how much loss has come the way of U BECAUSE of PHL. I feel it is time to rethink PHL as a hub. PHL should be a focus city with service where there is truly money to be made and move the important connectors back to PIT and more to CLT.

I cannot wait until January 6. I think the judge will slam that gavel with an iron fist. Say goodbye to your jobs and your contract IAM. You have only those few to blame. That behavior may have cost this airline it's survival. ARE YOU HAPPY NOW? DID YOU HAVE A GREAT CHRISTMAS SCREWING YOUR FELLOW EMPLOYEES AND CUSTOMERS? I can say the same for those f/a's that called in sick, especially those reserves with 0-15 hours as of Dec. 24th. You are pathetic. Don't whine to me about not flying.

I left tonight complimented by EVERY customer AND fellow crew member. As much as I hate this company, I refuse to stoop to their level. US Airways cannot have the person that is Me, however many CAVED to the very thing complained about here on a day to day basis. Many of you proved what the company wants the public to believe..that we are overpaid, underworked, entitled boobs.

Go ahead and make ALL the excuses you want. Crawl out of your cowardly hole and talk to the customer about their anger and disapointment. It's easy to screw people over when you can coward behind the scenes and not those you have screwed.

It's just sick and pathedic. Now blast away with your thousands of excuses. :angry: :angry: :down:

[post="233599"][/post]​

You get it. You are the reason US has such loyal customers. You are the reason that we don't want to go to another airline. You are the reason flying is not so bad. You are the reason your most frequent fliers will ram it down another traveler's throat when they say anything bad about US F/A's.

 

[LGA / 037]

It wasnt wine ........... It was REALITY !

This was not a union movement , but a mass individual movement !

 

[firstamendment]

It wasnt wine ........... It was REALITY !

This was not a union movement , but a mass individual movement !

[post="233614"][/post]​

Whatever the case, I feel a deep sense of saddness...period. <_<