US Pilot Labor Thread 7/27-8/3
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EastUS
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Elevation's earlier "concerns"..... Posted on: May 4 2007, 03:27 PM:
"NEWS FLASH: Parker already said that if a contract can't be agreed to the AWA guys will go on to the AAA contract!!!"
Posted on: Jun 2 2007, 06:10 PM: Elevation..."Stopping the list merge is all a moot point because Parker will force the list integration after a certain amount of time if the East pull out of negotiations. How you say? through the legal document known as the Hemmingway (sp) letter. Good you say "they can suffer with our contract" wrong again the West will have moved on to a new contract of there own (opened sec. 6) and will have it imposed on the East. It will be a be a good deal for the East but they will have had no input so it will be primarily West biased."
"Time to recall your MEC and start with some fresh thinkers because whats there isn't working." No problem there anymore, except for the tragically blinded out west, yet still followng their MEC leftovers.
"...for the East but they will have had no input so it will be primarily West biased."..."and will have it imposed on the East." No doubt whatsoever there...had the west actually gotten your way. Contrast that to the continued invitation from the east to actually have membership input and participation from the west..and let's all hear another rousing round of "INTEGRITY MATTERS" from the west folks. 😉
Posted on: May 25 2007, 09:50 PM Elevation: "Some get it, and see it as a pure delay tactic to allow cooler heads to prevail and not start a decert ALPA drive." I'll assume said "cooler heads" naturally included the west "leadership" that so brilliantly rejected length of service at Wye River...and any real potential for even the slightest compromise at all...other than along such "reasonable" lines as Leonidas' famous "I want the captain seat, ..and most of all, I want every single east pilot to pay for it".....
And now Folks...for the Elevation joke of the day?...apparent "concern" over the timing for a contract.
..Wonder what happened to "wrong again the West will have moved on to a new contract of there own (opened sec. 6)"????Posted on: Jul 16 2007, 05:51 PM Elevation "Why don't you post your ideas instead of some lame questions for a starter?" I'll fairly note that some might wish to substitute "lame questions" when all previous "ideas" proved insufficiently robust so as to survive long in the light of day........
My guess would be, not for a long while. Especially after that cute little stunt they pulled a couple weeks ago in the USAToday. And now after crying to the feds, that won't help them either. I use to be suprised of their dumb ideas but, not any more.
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EastUS
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Ah yes!..That is certainly "dumb"..given, I must suppose from your viewpoint, that the truest purpose of any Union is to be utterly submissive "little children" to the management "parents"..and desperately concerend only with currying favor...Yep..makes perfect sense..and always establishes the finest wages, benefits and working conditions for labor anywhere. That "interesting" little philosophy certainly showed it's full worth under the Alpa regime...yes indeed.
Rational cooperation for the mutual interests of both the labor group and management is perfectly sensibile. Worrying over whether or not anyone's offended or irritated within the process is utter nonsense, and best suited only for naieve "infants".
I've got 2 seconds to spare; Feel free to list any and all gains the west group's seen from being such "good kids" since the merger?...Section Six negotiations?....Nic?....Perhaps even a few packages of Koolaide at least?....or...Not even the Cactus call sign?
"I use to be suprised of (at?) their dumb ideas but, not any more." Agreed. Grow Up. Whether or not so much as one west pilot likes the curent scenario...all, both east and west, are merely members of the SAME labor group in management's eyes..save only for how they can best manipulate the current ill will betweent the west and east for their gains.
cactusboy53
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Section Six? Nope, sorry. My new "union" representatives chose to pass on this.
Nic? Nope. The whole USAPA bandwagon is to negate the Nicolau FINAL AND BINDING AWARD, and to cheat the AWA Pilot group in any way possible.
Koolaide? Nope.
Cactus call sign? Not likely, since it appears that Parker and the kids are still trying to kiss your posterior. I hope the new call sign is NICOLAU (3 sylables, easy to pronounce).
Oh, wait! It would appear that we continue to get 100% Mechanical and Deadhead!! It would also appear that we are getting IV pay (dude, you should see the calls to the line holders!!)!! Furloughs? Presently, yes. But it will cost LCC a ton of $$$$$ for downgrades and displacements. Once again, NO SAVINGS. Gee...I wonder if it's posturing to facilitate a merger??? I wonder if UAL is the merger target??? I wonder if UAL is going to shove ALPA down USAPA's wind pipe???
ALPA will be back here in less than 2 years
(PS...I'm not an ALPA flag waver, but I slept in a Holdiday Inn Express last night!!!)
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EastUS
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"Section Six? Nope, sorry. My new "union" representatives chose to pass on this." Why didn't/don't you actually bring your thoughts up to them? USAPA IS, by all legal concerns, your Union as well. Indignant anger, ostrich-like behavior, and seeming despair, ill serves your or anyone's purposes, or at least I would so think.
"Cactus call sign? Not likely, since it appears that Parker and the kids are still trying to kiss your posterior." Hmm...OK....Think about that then. We'll naturally not see such in the same light, since it's logically clear that Mr. Parker is simply, and legally obligated to negotiate with the established bargaining agent in any case.
"Nic? Nope." Enough said there.
"ALPA will be back here in less than 2 years" Let's wager.
"Koolaide? Nope." If you say so sir.
"(PS...I'm not an ALPA flag waver, but I slept in a Holdiday Inn Express last night!!!) " See!?..now that's the kind of issue you might wish to bring up with the Union, since crappy hotels are a problem in recent years...and Leowappa sure ain't gonna' do squat about it for you...as they haven't even the tiniest shred of legal authority, much less even ANY actual power at all...."Mr. Parker?..This is Leonidas of the mighty Awapper Clan calling..and I want the captain seat!!..and most of all, I want every single east pilot to pay for it!!!...Now!!".."I DEMAND that you declare the Nic for us all!!" (Cue up bales of laughter on the other end, quickly followed by a click)...."Umm..Mr. Parker?...This really IS Leonidas!..and I'm really, REALLY serious about this!!!!!"..."Why are you laughing!!??...This is no joke!!"..."I'm gonna' hold my breath 'till I turn blue!..and if that doesn't work...maybe I'll even hang a doll!!"..."I'm SERIOUS here!!"...."This is All-out-Warfare!!..and I'll even take and lynch more childrens' dolls!!"..."We're NOT just kidding around here out west!!"...."We've even got more stickers to put up!!"..."This is a SERIOUS and deadly "WAR" I tell you!!" 😉 ..."Ummm...are you there?"..."OK...maybe you're just too busy right now...I'll call back" 😉 Do you guys/gals even realize what a great boon to management your whack-case BS truly is?..and just how much of an utter joke your "Righteous Position" must needs seem to them?..Have any of you out there even the slightest clue? Without the least apparent understanding of the fact that this IS "one" labor group, from any/all legal perspectives..you've rendered yourselves into what, to any management perspective ..amount to nothing more than what the Stalinist regime so accurately termed "Useful Idiots"= "We're in total denial...and we'll do anything to undermine the Union here!!" = Useful Idiots indeed...if you're on the management side that is. DO let us all know the very, VERY first moment that your clinically insane behavior's EVER "rewarded" in ANY way by management. Meanwhile?..have fun trying to pretend to have even the least power over any/all events while continuing to play the ostrich if it's your whim to do so.
"The whole USAPA bandwagon is to negate the Nicolau FINAL AND BINDING AWARD, and to cheat the AWA Pilot group in any way possible." Cheat?..How?..by demanding respect for work done by others?. That's hardly the summed reasoning for establishing an alternative to Alpa..but if you're simply too blind to see? =Too bad if that's your big beef, and kindly grow up. Again...from any management perspective = "Useful Idiots".
"(dude, you should see the calls to the line holders!!)!! Furloughs? Presently, yes. But it will cost LCC a ton of $$$$$ for downgrades and displacements" Whew!...imagine that..the boy's first experience with any training "flush"..and the concept of seat-shuffling lights up for him as a reality, rather than some absurd notion that it's always headed upstream=right to left/etc...Time to read from extracts of Hare Krishna subtexts = Yhaghottabekiddinme!!??.....Sigh..OK.."dude" you've finally found some True Revelation at last 😉
"Reality!!??..Whatta' Concept!!" 😉
nycbusdriver
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You ain't seen nothin' yet.
The USA Today ad was the "wake-up call." Management thought they turned the alarm clock off; they only hit the snooze button.
sharktooth
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When SWA pays their FOs more than US pays their narrow-body Captains while dominating the corporate landscape with profits, eventually even the most jaded US pilot has got to start thinking that the problem at US is management, that getting cheaper managers will not help.
Using SWA as a management model, perhaps employees can get labor as a percent of "cost" shifted to a slightly higher number, borrowing from the well-compensated investment community, if necessary. Especially as US management has a tendency to shift items from "cost" to "other" category, as in food and drinks onboard, effectly, and dishonestly, "increasing" labor expense percentage.
cleardirect
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Oh great! We get to look forward to more lunacy and idiocy from the FO club. More wasting of dues money on another false “safety†issue. Do you understand that you only get one time to falsely throw the safety card and you guys wasted it. The next time a real safety issue comes up the feds and the public will not believe you.
What a childish maneuver to use the ASAP program for political gain. I did a flight from DTW to PHX. The latest bulletin says to plan on landing with 5500 lbs in an airbus. We were planned to land with 7.1 we actually landed with 8.5. Should I file out an ASAP report? USAPA says file every time fuel is not what it was planned.
Are you all so thick in the head that you can not see past the stupidity of USAPA? The damage that they are causing? Do you honestly believe that asking for an investigation into fuel burn will accomplish what you want? The feds are going to show because they have to. They are going to review paperwork. Probably find some errors. Guess who gets called onto the carpet? Pilots. Now USAPA has to waste resources defending these pilots against honest mistakes that would not have been noticed. The feds will probably increase observations. What did that accomplish? The flight plans were legal.
In my opinion if the company had enough evidence to call these 8 pilots in for training. After the debacle that USAPA caused I would have just fired the 8 and been done with it. Let the FO club try and get their jobs back. Waste more resources over a non- incident. Besides, have you asked yourself who was it that asked for the training? Ed Bular (east) Boss Hogg (east) an east chief pilot or someone in the training department all run by former east pilots. It was one of your own.
All of this nonsense just to try and show the company how tough the new club is? Management is shaking their head in disgust ALPA was not the best but at least there was some adult supervision. If an MEC tried to pull this boneheaded maneuver they could at least give some unemotional guidance. Tell them it is not helpful. But not now. Bradford can go off on his little temper tantrum with no one to stop him.
Are you so lost in the 70’s that you think that this kind of stupidity is going to get you a better contract? That causing passenger bookings to go down or increasing fuel costs will improve our contract? You all need a serious dose of reality. This is 2008 an airline is going to fail in order to save the entire industry. Do you think that the government cares who it is? If the new US Airways closed tomorrow would anyone miss it? Domestically. PHL so what other hubs by other carriers are nearby. CTL a small southern city ATL nearby. PHX as you have said leisure market, big deal SWA can pick up the slack. LAS losing block hours anyway. International, a very small percentage in that market. Get real only 19 wide bodies. United has that many in maintenance at any one time. So no US Air would not be missed.
You were saved from oblivion the last time. Don’t count on it this time.
Megasnoop
Veteran
"Section Six? Nope, sorry." Right on, 53. Your OLD MEC turned that chance down in June 2006. Wish we could, but we can't do the Section 6 thing until December 2009. So we'll just get what we can without the leverage of a strike threat. Maybe only cost neutral. Maybe less. But it will be DOH (with fences, so we're not bumping you out of PHX). We'd love to have you guys on board for some input, but you won't join, so no-join, no input, no vote.
FINAL AND BINDING on who? That was an ALPO deal, between two consenting MECs. ALPO's gone and so are the two MECs. It's not binding on USAPA. It's negotiable, even when ALPO was in. At least that's what Parker and your own attorney said. What do you think Wye River was for? It was supposed to be a negotiation. Our old MEC and ALPO National begged you to modify the NIC with LOS, along with fences. Your own attorney told you to work out a deal. but your arrogant leaders turned it down. Our MEC was even willing to sell out our MDA pilots. You'd have no West furloughs, good buddy. You blew it.
Until we have a single "cost-neutral" contract. Let's see, we get a pay raise that comes out of your work conditions. OUCH! Kirby offered $165/hour for group 2 aircraft when oil was $60/bl. Both MECs turned it down. Somehow, I don't think that offer is still on the table.
Keep living the fanasty, 53. IF a UAL merger happens, we'll have a contract with DOH in place long before it's finalized, even if it's cost neutral or "parity minus." Crappy contracts last a couple of years. Seniority lasts a career.
ALPA will be back here in less than 2 years
we'll have a DOH contract long before then. DOH WILL be written into the contract and not negotiable down the line. And when you guys eventually have the majority vote and try to bring back ALPO and try to change DOH, by then you'll have all the top slots anyway. Most of us will be retired. And under no-bump/no-flush, you'll never get us out of our seats.
You guys have had one string of bad luck. Can't even win the callsign war. Snoop
nycbusdriver
Veteran
yada yada yada
DELETED They couldn't bring their own pay and benefits out of the gutter for the entire time they existed as AWA because they had no cojones to do it. Now, when a labor organization decides it's time for a new day, is willing to draw a line in the sand AND STICK BY IT and has the support of all its members, some westies want to throw that tail yet again between their legs and whimper away like scared puppies.
It's pathetic.
Well, Bucko, remember this time you are along for the ride. Fasten your seat belt, keep your arms in the car and enjoy it.
BillLumbergh
Veteran
Wow.....Glad to see the new thread already has the tempers flared.
Knock off the attacks, or say "bye bye" to the thread for the week.
Knock off the attacks, or say "bye bye" to the thread for the week.
NiceLandingCaptain
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Well, busdiver, seems as though clearedirect hit a nerve with that post - that dose of reality. And all you can do for a retort is fire off your usual nonsense about gutters and such. Well, guess who's sitting in it now?
You usaps had better perk up and pay attention. Too many missteps and next thing you know, usap will be history - at least you won't have to fall far. Go ahead, keep drawing your lines in the sand. Dare anyone to step over them. But don't be too surprised at the result.
By the way, what do you think the pea brain trust over there at the usap palace intends to do about this:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nation/5906506.html
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