US Pilot Labor Thread 7/27-8/3

[EastUS]

More wasting of dues money....

"More wasting of dues money...." Dues money which you're seeking to not pay..so; why do you care?....or feel yourself at all entitled to even speak about? Those who actually pay dues aren't the least bit upset with the resource allocation, and are supportive in this case.

"Oh great! We get to look forward to more lunacy and idiocy from the FO club." Just curious: While that characterization's entirely inaccurate anyway...Do you have the same evidenced contempt for those of your west fellows that will be bumped from the left seat due to furloughs?

"Do you understand that you only get one time to falsely throw the safety card and you guys wasted it." Oops!..Too late!...given that hosting any jumpseaters one doesn't have warm and fuzzy feelings for clearly constitutes a "Safety" issue out west 😉

"Are you all so thick in the head that you can not see past the stupidity of USAPA? The damage that they are causing?" Exactly what supposed "damage" is that?

"In my opinion if the company had enough evidence to call these 8 pilots in for training. After the debacle that USAPA caused I would have just fired the 8 and been done with it. Let the FO club try and get their jobs back." Whew!...now there's a devoutly concerned, "True Unionist's" thoughts for all to see. Small wonder that you're still so fond of Alpa.......

"ALPA was not the best but at least there was some adult supervision. If an MEC tried to pull this boneheaded maneuver they could at least give some unemotional guidance." I'm honestly curious herein, and feel completely free to name names in support of the fantasy of "some adult supervision" within Alpa. Umm...who/when/where did such show itself? I'd love even one example..other than say...perhaps the time pensions were thrown away wholesale, without any membership voting rights, and that was done with the fullest blessings of mighty Alpa's "adult supervision" and enlightened input..and immediately signed off on by the very "president" of the association...and without Alpa's full cooperation, wouldn't have even been legally possible...as even noted by the Judge involved. It was later determined that Alpa's "facts" and "data" that drove the spineless capitualation/sell-out, and membership rapine were erroneous BS. I've long wondered as to who, amongst the "adult" supervisors at Alpa got richly paid off for that one...or whether they were truly just that utterly incompetent to begin with.


"You were saved from oblivion the last time. Don’t count on it this time." Oh NO!...The sky is falling!!..Yet Again!! We'd all best just give up on everything!!

 

[EastUS]

Well, busdiver, seems as though clearedirect hit a nerve with that post

Mindless/Spineless cheerleading for wholesale submission and unconditional surrender can have that effect on many

 

[tazz]

Mindless/Spineless cheerleading for wholesale submission and unconditional surrender can have that effect on many

Cleardirect gets it, nycbusdriver's childish bravado will get us all a place in the unemployment line, eastus, as usual, pontificates useless drivel.

Good day, sir! lol

p.s. you east guys should all be firefighters. You clearly can suck the oxygen out of a room.

 

[cleardirect]

DELETED They couldn't bring their own pay and benefits out of the gutter for the entire time they existed as AWA because they had no cojones to do it.

Maybe you should look at your contract. You do realize that AAA pay rates and total contract is LOWER than AWA right? So when you talk about gutter contracts better take another look. Besides I find it better to think and react with my brain than my cojones. It has always worked out much better.

Now, when a labor organization decides it's time for a new day, is willing to draw a line in the sand AND STICK BY IT and has the support of all its members,

But wait! I thought that USAPA represented ALL US Airways pilots. So that is a false statement, it does NOT have the support of all it’s members. Or are you confirming that USAPA does not represent the west?

It's pathetic.

No, what is pathetic is that USAPA and the east majority do not think, only react emotionally.

Well, Bucko, remember this time you are along for the ride. Fasten your seat belt, keep your arms in the car and enjoy it.

Yeah I know. That is what has me so worried. The tyranny of the majority dictating the west destruction. If we are along for the ride remind me again why anyone from the west should join USAPA? You just admitted that USAPA does not represent the west.

 

[EastUS]

Cleardirect gets it, nycbusdriver's childish bravado will get us all a place in the unemployment line,

Really?..Exactly how and why will that happen? Cue Steve Martin = "I'm Soooo confused" here. I thought it was the business of management to run any given company, and the business of labor to try and improve their working conditions, wages and benefits that they trade for their time, skills and effort. Some folks must see things differently....and without the least bit of any clarity it seems.

 

[EastUS]

Besides I find it better to think and react with my brain than my cojones. It has always worked out much better.

You've clearly had the benefit of a fairly safe and sheltered life then. Some scenarios are actually quite well served by calling upon some cojones. Why..even such as labor-management issues can fit within such notions at times.

 

[ussnark]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nation/5906506.html

Do you know the reason he was allegedly "fired"?

 

[LSS]

But wait! I thought that USAPA represented ALL US Airways pilots. So that is a false statement, it does NOT have the support of all it’s members. Or are you confirming that USAPA does not represent the west?

Clear have you joined USAPA? Are you even paying germain expenses to the Union? If not, I'd say you're not a "member"! Representing the non-paying, non-member is required, but the statement you were responding to was true...

 

[tazz]

Really?..Exactly how and why will that happen? Cue Steve Martin = "I'm Soooo confused" here. I thought it was the business of management to run any given company, and the business of labor to try and improve their working conditions, wages and benefits that they trade for their time, skills and effort. Some folks must see things differently....and without the least bit of any clarity it seems.

Eastus: clearly you aren't this stupid! Running to the press and to the FAA with false safety concerns when oil is at current prices are a clear path to destruction. As nycbusdriver said, "you haven't seen anything yet". I believe him and I believe your side is determined to burn this place down just to prove your point. By the way, I do mean it when I say that you pontificate useless drivel. Your question proves my point.

 

[ussnark]

Some folks must see things differently....and without the least bit of any clarity it seems.

Clarity would demand experience, something definitely lacking from some of the posters.

After beating their brains out obsequiously under ALPA, one might think, to avoid future stupidity, a group of supposedly intelligent people might try something different. Most anything would do. The ad was a great sign. Four successful and competent non-pilots were reassured by the ad, a DA, a corporate attorney and two investment people, one of whom works directly with Warren Buffett. Even Mr. Buffett was supposedly impressed.

If you wish to go through life wringing your hands over every little attempt to assert that which airline pilots should be proud of, then, please go hide somewhere and leave this to the adults. You are embarrassing the rest of the airline pilot group. If you are not proud of advertising your strengths, I suggest you go find yourself another line of work. I hear they always have openings for followers.

 

[ussnark]

Eastus: clearly you aren't this stupid! Running to the press and to the FAA with false safety concerns when oil is at current prices are a clear path to destruction.

Shorter tazz: Clearly the price of oil should determine whether pilots are concerned with safety or not.

 

[EastUS]

Eastus: clearly you aren't this stupid! Running to the press and to the FAA with false safety concerns when oil is at current prices are a clear path to destruction. As nycbusdriver said, "you haven't seen anything yet". I believe him and I believe your side is determined to burn this place down just to prove your point. By the way, I do mean it when I say that you pontificate useless drivel. Your question proves my point.

Sorry..but I am apparently "this stupid"..since all I've heard from any passengers is that they're fully supportive of the pilots, and very, very happy to know that we won't crumble under pressure regarding fuel. Where you get your doom and gloom fantasies "a clear path to destruction"...and that The End is Near!! due to USAPA actions is truly a mystery to me. What data do you actually base such nonsense on?...or is this just some more "feelings", as usually "fueled" by wearing anti-east blinders at every turn?

"By the way, I do mean it when I say that you pontificate useless drivel." No offence meant..but..I can probably live with that. Others might perceive such as "I believe him and I believe your side is determined to burn this place down just to prove your point." in a similar light. No one's, by any means, seeking to "burn this place down", nor is doing so. We've all the benefits of our differing opinions.

The universal west responses posted so far amount to "Don't do this!!".."Don't ever do ANYTHING!!".."I'm scared!!"..."Waah!!..We're all gonna' die!!". "QUOTE (cleardirect @ Jul 28 2008, 02:16 PM) Besides I find it better to think and react with my brain than my cojones. It has always worked out much better." Don't think that management folks don't gain full understanding of your group from live action interfacing and postings as well = "cojones" are a bad thing...while easy capitulation's presumably "good".

While the fuel issues, imho, non-negotiable, and entirely unrelated to any management-labor contractual issues...Well..the obvious timidity of your posters serves no one's interests,...and most certainly not your own on any level. Don't sit up late tonight waiting for the cactus callsign or your Nic to be handed to you from management...or...anything at all to be handed to you....ever. "We're easilly scared and we give up at the first loud sound" isn't much of a bargaining position to offer.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Maybe you should look at your contract. You do realize that AAA pay rates and total contract is LOWER than AWA right? So when you talk about gutter contracts better take another look.

First off, I make more hourly than any line pilot at AWA. In my first 25 years at USAir, I already earned more than any of your most senior pilots will see in their entire careers. There is no way to catch up since your contracts during that period were so far inferior to mine and almost every other airline in the country.

My point about your gutter contracts is that you have had them since you turned your first Dash-8 prop in, what?, 1983? You've never managed to get anywhere close to what was even 80% of industry standard pre-911. Now, of course, our Group 2 pilots make considerably less than AWA. That has been since 2003. So, over the last 25 years, AWA has been in the gutter the ENTIRE time. USAir pilots have had industry leading contracts for 20 of those 25 years. And our highest paying pilots still leave you folks in the dust.

But wait! I thought that USAPA represented ALL US Airways pilots. So that is a false statement, it does NOT have the support of all it’s members. Or are you confirming that USAPA does not represent the west?

I realize that this may be a difficult concept for you. I said that USAPA has the support of its members. Are you a member? Didn't think so. Your opinion is moot in that case.

While USAPA has the support of its members, that does not necessarily mean that all the pilots it represents are members.

Do you see the difference? Do you understand the difference? FARs require Airline Transport Pilots to be able to read, speak, UNDERSTAND and have fluency in English.

And remember, Bucko, you are along for the ride. And it appears there's nothing you are willing to do about it. The captain has turned on the "Fasten Seat Belt" sign. I suggest you heed it.

 

[tazz]

Shorter tazz: Clearly the price of oil should determine whether pilots are concerned with safety or not.

Notice that I said FALSE safety claims because that's what they are. The company is not pressuring anyone to take less fuel than they are comfortable taking. The flight planning is no less accurate than it has ever been. Taking a lot of extra fuel to blatantly waste in order to make a point is criminal in my view. Making a public statement falsely is no less criminal.

 

[EastUS]

Notice that I said FALSE safety claims because that's what they are. Taking a lot of extra fuel to blatantly waste in order to make a point is criminal in my view.

Tell us all about it after your next Atlantic crossing, or just kindly shut up about things you're clearly clueless about. "Taking a lot of extra fuel to blatantly waste"??? I'll assume that 15 or so extra minutes on some 7-10 hour flights IS clearly "criminal" in your...umm..."interesting" and hugely experienced perspective.

No matter. Your strong support for your "fellow pilots" is duly noted by all.