US Pilot Labor Thread, Aug.31st-Sep. 07

[exB717Flyer]

Yep..and has been "progressing nicely" for how many years now?....Is it 9 years now?...

Seven years. But it wasn't nice for a while as it took over two years to deal with ALPA's refusal to release discovery documents. We eventually won that battle and depositions have resumed. Woerth is just about to or has already been served. And yes, I'm aware of how long it takes lawsuits to progress. But it's gotta start sometime.

 

[michael707767]

Merger Committee Chairman Randy Mowrey then briefed the BPR, stating that it is reasonable to explore a flow-through agreement with our wholly-owned regional carriers, as it can add some stability for our pilots inside such a volatile industry. Chairman Mowrey pointed out that an agreement can provide mutual benefits to all the pilots involved.

Interesting. Are they going to flow up with their date of hire intact?

 

[Phoenix]

USAPA Update
September 05, 2008


...The Complaint bases its DFR action against USAPA, in part, on the allegation that the union acted in an “arbitraryâ€￾ fashion in adopting a constitution that endorses date of hire seniority integration...

USAPA did not "adopt" it. The pilots adopted it. Before USAPA had any DFR obligations they crafted and proposed a constitution that included seniority provisions.

So even if one agrees that the "adoption" was wrong, USAPA isn't responsible.

 

[Phoenix]

So, what your are insinuating is that it would be better if:
1. USAPA should drop all law suits (or appeals) against former AWA pilots.
2. USAPA should change its constitution regarding seniority to reflect what is now recent passed law (that oddly mirrors ALPA merger policy).
3. USAPA should adopt and enforce the Nicoalu binding arbitration as is.
4. USAPA should aggressively rally support of the former AWA pilots instead of seeking to fire them.
5. USAPA should be sure that all pilots and bases are fairly represented in the BPR.
and....
6. USAPA "NAC" should then secure a new contract (utilizing the entire scope of pilots, volunteers, and Subject Matter Experts) to gain a wage that is north of the AWA wage with better schedules, time off and quality of life improvements.

Right?? 😀

No actually it would be most profitable to go to law school and join in the incitement of conflict that needs lawyers to bring about reconciliation.

 

[fodase]

USAPA did not "adopt" it. The pilots adopted it. Before USAPA had any DFR obligations they crafted and proposed a constitution that included seniority provisions.

So even if one agrees that the "adoption" was wrong, USAPA isn't responsible.

Well what you and most posters so far don't seem to get, is that these lawsuits are against "individuals" and the contract those "individuals" entered into thru their designated representatives. Those individuals are on video tape, on written documents etc. stating they would not only not abide by a contract but they would undermine it. So this is why usapa's response is so interesting, usapa refers to the "rla" in their update, but these suits are breach of contract between "people". The rla or nmb had nothing to do with the nicolau, pilots chose to go to binding arbitration, some of those pilots decided they didn't like it and decided to breach the contract.

 

[tazz]

Well what you and most posters so far don't seem to get, is that these lawsuits are against "individuals" and the contract those "individuals" entered into thru their designated representatives. Those individuals are on video tape, on written documents etc. stating they would not only not abide by a contract but they would undermine it. So this is why usapa's response is so interesting, usapa refers to the "rla" in their update, but these suits are breach of contract between "people". The rla or nmb had nothing to do with the nicolau, pilots chose to go to binding arbitration, some of those pilots decided they didn't like it and decided to breach the contract.

BINGO!

 

[EastUS]

Seven years. But it wasn't nice for a while as it took over two years to deal with ALPA's refusal to release discovery documents. We eventually won that battle and depositions have resumed. Woerth is just about to or has already been served. And yes, I'm aware of how long it takes lawsuits to progress. But it's gotta start sometime.

Any/All potential litigation clearly affords no semblance of any imminent threat to USAPA in any case, and will take many years to ever see the light of day, assuming that sufficient merit's even found in the first place. I'm of like opinion with ableoneable that this one looks to be a premature launching, although that certainly doesn't preclude future filings if this one's tossed at the starting gate. I also find it rather curious that only 6 west guys have their names on this one as plaintiffs...yet universal group support and spending's expected....hmmm.

Assuming that west filings are found to have sufficient merit for progressing; I think I'll reasonably have to stick with; call us in however many years it takes for anything ever filed out there to ever even come to any final judgement, and let us all know if you actually ever win anything at all.

Meanwhile...back to the real world......

 

[tazz]

Well, if nothing else, this law suit gives us all something to discuss. It also gives some of us hope and some of you something to fear. Well worth my $1,000.

 

[FlyDCJets]

Subject: America West / USAirways pilot fighting.....When will it end?

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/content/printVersion/874450

 

[fodase]

Any/All potential litigation clearly affords no semblance of any imminent threat to USAPA in any case, and will take many years to ever see the light of day, assuming that sufficient merit's even found in the first place. I'm of like opinion with ableoneable that this one looks to be a premature launching. I also find it rather curious that only 6 west guys have their names on this one as plaintiffs...yet universal group support and spending's expected....hmmm.

Assuming that west filings are found to have sufficient merit for progressing; I think I'll reasonably have to stick with; call us in however many years it takes for anything ever filed out there to ever even come to any final judgement, and let us all know if you actually ever win anything at all.

Meanwhile...back to the real world......

Well the 6 plaintiffs were carefully selected, they come from specific seniority ranges that have been affected, i.e. one is getting downgraded, one is getting furloughed oct 1 etc. Also remember one of the suits is a "class action" against every single pilot on the east list. The hybrid asks for an injunction, If (big if) that is granted it would come down quickly.

 

[prechilill]

I think that the suit was premature.

Until west pilots are actually furloughed, and or downgraded, it will be difficult to prove that harm has occurred.

I don't think that promotions that otherwise would have occurred are going to impress the bench.

If a judge sees the case prior to the above taking place I think there is a strong possibility of a dismissal without prejudice.

Not so. Intent to furlough contrary to the transition agreement meets the threshold for an actionable claim. The company and USAPA will be hard pressed to explain to the judge how their furlough plans which allow for AWA pilots to be furloughed before new hires complies with the transition agreement. To even the casual observer, as has been even admitted by the vocals out east, the furlough plan adopted by the company and not countered by the union is not compliant with the governing contract between all three parties. The result is a validation in the court's eyes that the transition agreement is binding by all parties involved. Any subsequent modification to the timeline of the furlough to comply with the transition agreement will validate and establish unequivocally the authority of the transition agreement. You can connect the next dot from here.

 

[EastUS]

Not so. Intent to furlough contrary to the transition agreement meets the threshold for an actionable claim. The company and USAPA will be hard pressed to explain to the judge how their furlough plans which allow for AWA pilots to be furloughed before new hires complies with the transition agreement.

Care to actually wager on that?

 

[EastUS]

Also remember one of the suits is a "class action" against every single pilot on the east list.

Understood..Sigh..the perverted postition's been made very clear long ago = Leonidas: "I want the captain seat..and most of all I want every single east pilot to pay for it" ....Yawn, stretch...yawn yet again. So..of these six: Which are the ones who figured themselves entitled to be in the left seats of A330's by now? 😉

 

[prechilill]

Care to actually wager on that?

I'll bet what's left of your tumultuous career on it. Besides, a pilot on your pay scale can't afford much these days so you should save every penny you make.

 

[EastUS]

I'll bet what's left of your tumultuous career on it. Besides, a pilot on your pay scale can't afford much these days so you should save every penny you make.

Not to fret sweetie, as I'll guarantee that my income stream far exceeds yours...but..I suppose I'll have to take that as a typical bubble of hot air-filled "firm convictions"..followed by a "no"?...OK

Seriously; your assertion that "The company and USAPA will be hard pressed to explain to the judge how their furlough plans which allow for AWA pilots to be furloughed before new hires complies with the transition agreement." is the purest, willful fantasy. There's no shortage of support for the company and USAPA's dealings..and the onus lies entirely on your side to prove otherwise.