US Pilot Labor Thread, Aug.31st-Sep. 07

[prechilill]

Not to fret sweetie, as I'll guarantee that my income stream far exceeds yours...but..I suppose I'll have to take that as a typical bubble of hot air..followed by a "no"?...OK

So you sell insurance, or is it dog food?

 

[prechilill]

Layman's understanding: The "nic" is only one part of a "merger package". The arbitration was the result of a stalled "seniority" negotiation and is only "binding" within the ALPA sponsored "merger package" for that merger attempt and only during that time period and only has effect if the package goes through, all the eyes dotted and tees crossed. It holds no weight outside of the ALPA sponsored "merger package".

By your reasoning every contract negotiated by ALPA is no longer valid. Obviously this is not the case. The transition agreement is not a proposal, as you seem to believe (or led to believe by your union) and the Nicolau seniority dispute was carried out as predicated by your merger policy, including "final and binding" as dictated by the transition agreement of which your pilot group is a party of. Abiding by the transition agreement isn't voluntary or discretionary, as your union wishes you to believe. In fact, all parts of it are binding until the integration is completed. So far, we are not one pilot group and the west's legal claims establishes three points to be seen in the courts:
1. the validity of the transition agreement as the governing contract
2. east pilots were a voluntary party to the transition agreement.
3. the west maintains their rights as dictated by the transition agreement to vote as a group for a new CBA.

USAPA glossed over point three in their rhetoric to their masses by assuming they can just modify that component of the transition agreement at will. Contract law says they can't and the west now has an opportunity to test the USAPA hypotheticals in the court system. Based on case precedence, affirming USAPA's position would be a first in our legal system. My money goes with the status quo here.
Representation changes, unlike what your union wishes the masses to believe, does not retroactively negate selective agreements or contracts your party has agreed upon. ALPA was the legitimate representative of the east pilot group at the time of the merger and signing of the transition agreement. USAPA inherited all previous contracts as spelled out clearly by the NMB.
What Marty Harper has brilliantly done is present to the federal courts a complaint which will require judgement and findings reaffirming that the transition agreement in whole is binding governing. Whether monetary damages are awarded is debatable, but the point is to disprove in short order the wishful thinking of the masses out east that contracts can be selectively repudiated at will.

 

[tazz]

Well said, Prechill

 

[tazz]

Understood..Sigh..the perverted postition's been made very clear long ago = Leonidas: "I want the captain seat..and most of all I want every single east pilot to pay for it" ....Yawn, stretch...yawn yet again. So..of these six: Which are the ones who figured themselves entitled to be in the left seats of A330's by now? 😉

Come on, EastUS, you have long ago worn out that quote. Anyone can recognize it as the rant of one goofball or something taken completely out of context. Even if it was legitimate, you have used it way too much. No one on the west thinks that way, maybe with the exception of the author, so let it go. Surely you can come up with something better and, no, I am not calling you Shirley.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Keep telling yourselves all that crap if it makes you feel better. USAPA, under labor laws, can change and amend contracts with the company as the pilots' CBA, even the ones it inherited.

The RLA governs airline contracts, a detail that your "labor expert" lawyers apparently failed to grasp.

Is this on a docket somewhere? Please let me know when and where. I can use a good laugh.

 

[EastUS]

Come on, EastUS, you have long ago worn out that quote. Anyone can recognize it as the rant of one goofball or something taken completely out of context. Even if it was legitimate, you have used it way too much. No one on the west thinks that way, maybe with the exception of the author, so let it go. Surely you can come up with something better and, no, I am not calling you Shirley.

"Even if it was legitimate,"??? I can show you the post if desired..and that wasn't the most ridiculously self-obsessed and hateful one by light years. What can I say? Said poster's very "name" was/is none other than Leonidas...Honestly..What's that actually tell the east people? Add that to your assininely titled "ARMY" of Leonidas"..."All Out Warfare"/etc, ad nauseum, and what's the flavoring we're really supposed to get out here? Frankly; I'd be embarassed by this Leonidas character myself, so I don't blame you for tiring of the quote...but..I surely didn't make it up, nor ever could make up such self-obsessed, utter BS. That sort of crap's come from the west side like an avalanche though....from the very first "Booyooshaka!" to the "Ho Ho Ho!, St Nic is coming to town!" type of utterly adolescent BS....Throw in a few zillion versions of "and we hate you guys"..and of course.the noble "courtesy" extended to east jumpseaters.....Well...You tell me, honestly..what impression are we all supposed to have out here?.

As for any assertion that "No one on the west thinks that way"..I can only ask you to be serious here. With the exception of a few folks I've had the pleasure of actually meeting, and even some on these often, rather acidic boards as well...little evidence supports any such claim sir. I certainly wish it were otherwise.

Understood on the Shirley 😉 It never hurts to keep a functioning sense of humour throughout all this mess sir life's simply too short to take many things too deadly seriously. 😉

 

[FL430]

Prechilil:

Point 1 and 2 - Yes east and west was a party to their respective transition agreements, they inherit same and both are current controlling documents as are both CBA's untill they are superseded by a new ratified agreement.

Point 3 - The NMB has ruled that both East and West are now one group as per RLA law so therefore your bargaining agent is now USAPA whether you like it or not. If you dont pay dues then they have no duty to represent you.

The Nicolai list is only a bargaining position established by the former union - it was never enacted with a new CBA and as such has no value whatsoever to the new bargaining agent - as your own attorney has so advised you of. The seniority section of the contract is no different than establishing vacation time, sick time , or crew meals. The list has to be a part of the contract to be enforced.

If the Nic is ever to be a part of a new contract the east will never vote it in so therefore even if USAPA were to accept it it will never come to be.

 

[Eastisleast]

"If the Nic is ever to be a part of a new contract the east will never vote it in so therefore even if USAPA were to accept it it will never come to be."

This quote should be used for evidence in our DFR case!

 

[ussnark]

... some of those pilots decided they didn't like it and decided to breach the contract.

You must have a contract in place, first, in order to "breach it".

There was no agreement or contract. The "nic" was no more than a proposal that got left in the dust. Get used to it.

 

[Eastisleast]

Keep telling yourselves all that crap if it makes you feel better. USAPA, under labor laws, can change and amend contracts with the company as the pilots' CBA, even the ones it inherited.

The RLA governs airline contracts, a detail that your "labor expert" lawyers apparently failed to grasp.

Is this on a docket somewhere? Please let me know when and where. I can use a good laugh.

I guess you know more than an attorney....would you be interested as a consultant for AOL?

You can go to Cactuspilot.com and read the lawsuit for yourself since USAPA won't post it. They love keeping the drones in the dark.

PS..while you are there feel free to make a donation

 

[ussnark]

The company and USAPA will be hard pressed to explain to the judge how their furlough plans which allow for AWA pilots to be furloughed before new hires complies with the transition agreement.

USAPA will be really hard pressed, since they do not determine furloughs. It is the company. The fact that you repeat such lies leads me to believe your ALPA MEC was pretty much in the company's crotchety area.

 

[Tiger 1050]

"If the Nic is ever to be a part of a new contract the east will never vote it in so therefore even if USAPA were to accept it it will never come to be."

This quote should be used for evidence in our DFR case!

I believe this very notion is in there... But then they'd know that if they took the time to thoroughly read them.

 

[BottomFeeder]

I'll bet what's left of your tumultuous career on it. Besides, a pilot on your pay scale can't afford much these days so you should save every penny you make.

The way I see it, we Easties have somewhere between 500,000 and 750,000 in a account that pays us 6% each and every year. They call it a pension.

This pension is worth much more than a few extra dollars per hour. But you Westies never figured this out with your bottom of the barrel contracts.

How's your company provided pension?

 

[ussnark]

By your reasoning every contract negotiated by ALPA is no longer valid.

No, I said, every proposal that was never acted on. Read, then understand. Sorta like, aim before firing.

Does ASU offer reading comprehension classes?

 

[Tiger 1050]

The way I see it, we Easties have somewhere between 500,000 and 750,000 in a account that pays us 6% each and every year. They call it a pension.

This pension is worth much more than a few extra dollars per hour. But you Westies never figured this out with your bottom of the barrel contracts.

How's your company provided pension?

Are you serious? You are gonna "brag" about your "pension" in the middle of a discussion regarding the lawsuit?!?! Wow! You are really reaching. Sorry but that's just pathetic...