US Pilot Labor Thread, Aug.31st-Sep. 07

[dariencc]

He was also credited with saying that "cool northern efficiency" would essentially trump all.
His "Project High Ground" didn't seem to be too effective.

You're a real encyclopedia of knowledge of the history of this company.


"High Ground" came two years after Colodny's retirement.

 

[Ralph]

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[ALPO NO MO]

Five page article on this pilot mess.

LOL, so the local Phoenix give-away paper writer only interviews AWA pilots, and she was so balanced! NOT
Guess she doesn't have the budget to make a few phone calls to hear from the other side. Maybe if the paper could get a few more of those "scintillating singles" ads, they could afford to dig a little deeper.

 

[ALPO NO MO]

Colodny was a great CEO for Allegany, not so great for a merged airline.

Failing to build on the routes that PSA held and to understand the best fare structure for CA cities that were only 50 miles apart but $200. apart in USAIR's new pricing is what allowed SWA to show up and start a fare war.

 

[tazz]

Tazz, I don't agree with your prognostications but as I said before, no complaints on your west history. You were there. Reading between the lines in your old posts, did you quit out of frustrations over McIlvenna? How did a weasel get elected MEC Chairman? Usual backstabbing ALPA politics or was McIlvenna a self-made man? for ALPA it must have been the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Snoop, yes, I did quit over frustrations orchestrated by McIlvenna and the MEC chairman at the time. As you may recall the Merger Committee did not support what we call on this side "the PIT fiasco". That was the first meeting of our MEC's, LEC's, Negotiating Committees and Merger Committee. Ours, however, did NOT attend. McIlvenna wanted a "dream list" to bring to PIT which was a total slap in the face of the east. We warned them not to go and refused to attend. When they returned from PIT, after having their a$$es handed to them McIlvenna was on a rampage to fire the MC. From that day forward he and the MEC chairman undermined the efforts of the MC in my humble opinion.
Whether you believe it or not alpa national made every effort to give the east the upper hand in the whole process, right down to delaying handing over the list once accomplished. Our MEC, with ambitions of achieving that rich alpa national tit worked to help national put the east first, in my opinion. I just got tired of peeing into the wind.

 

[dariencc]

Colodny was a great CEO for Allegany, not so great for a merged airline.

Failing to build on the routes that PSA held and to understand the best fare structure for CA cities that were only 50 miles apart but $200. apart in USAIR's new pricing is what allowed SWA to show up and start a fare war.

It's spelled Allegheny.

USAir had no control over Southwest "showing up" anywhere. Neither did American or anyone else. I thought history had borne this out, but if you can point to one area of the country where WN's long, slow inexorable expansion has been prevented then please share it with us.

The WN business model has been the bane of the network carriers for 30 years. It has also successfully hammered any regional point to point operators that stood in its way. I wish Colodny had foreseen these problems and passed on the PSA acquisition. AA could have saved themselves some aggravation as well if Crandall had backed off the AirCal fiasco.

USAir had a higher SoCal market share than WN right up until the drawdown, but market share was not the problem. The problem was squeezing enough yield out of the routes to match costs. This was even tougher in the 80s than in more recent history because WN was not paying industry leading wages back then, we were. But if if it makes you feel good to believe that PSA's "pricing" would have kept Southwest out of SoCal, knock yourself out.

 

[Freighterguynow]

His "Project High Ground" didn't seem to be too effective.

Actually, it was.

Under Ferguson, Continental went ahead with the rapid expansion of its Continental Lite operation, which represented the company's own version of Southwest Airlines' short-haul, no-meal, low-fare flights. In less than a year, the program was expanded from the use of 19 aircraft for 173 daily flights serving 14 cities, to 114 aircraft for 1,000 daily flights among 43 cities. The additional aircraft were made available by eliminating the Denver hub and redeploying planes and equipment to other locations. Unfortunately, Continental Lite proved itself to be unprofitable and contributed greatly to the company's 1994 loss of $613 million.

Briefly during the mid-1990s, Continental operated a hub at Piedmont Triad International Airport (Greensboro, High Point and Winston-Salem), primarily as the base of its short-lived Continental Lite experiment. The airline dismantled the Greensboro-High Point-Winston Salem hub by 1995 following the termination of Continental Lite.[25]

High ground was US Air's response to CA Light.

 

[LCC_#1]

I am somewhat amazed by what I am reading here. I made a statement which was in support of labor--in no way shape or form was I blaming ANY labor group or employee for the situation the company is in. I CERTAINLY was not blaming the pilot group for ANYTHING.

I was merely making an observation that IF you folks could work things out and get a single contract, the improved efficiencies and single work group MIGHT help the situation.


I guess things are too far gone after all......

Art, I agree with you. And you are correct in stating that things are too far gone. They read what they wanted and as usual decided to spew and add reply. Is it any wonder many have just stopped posting?

 

[Megasnoop]

Snoop, yes, I did quit over frustrations orchestrated by McIlvenna and the MEC chairman at the time.
Whether you believe it or not alpa national made every effort to give the east the upper hand in the whole process, right down to delaying handing over the list once accomplished. Our MEC, with ambitions of achieving that rich alpa national tit worked to help national put the east first, in my opinion.

Tazz, thats some interesting history. I'm not questioning you. Last time I did you handed me my lunch. I was based in BOS at the time and remember our BOS FO Rep putting out his comments on PIT. McIlvena accused us of reading your emails or something like that. He and Garland went back and forth with a series of accusations and nasty emails.

Your right on ALPA's delay tactics. They were doing whatever it took to save the property. To be honest, if they had just dropped the NIC on the company on day two, it might have turned out difernt. We still would have needed both sides to pass a contract, but who knows what the result. With ALPA doesnt it all boil down to the political ambitions of a few screwing over the many. I did ALPA committee grunt work for a few years back in the 90s. I saw a lot of ALPA luring pilots with cushy jobs and perks. They all succombed to the temptation. snooper

 

[freedom]

An article from the PHX NEW TIMES? ah hahahahahahahahahahaha :mf_boff: they most likely got 98% of their story from this message board .... as far as news papers go , they are the equlivlant of MESA ....

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

Actually, it was...

Thank you for an informative post.

 

[GolfNovember]

LOL, so the local Phoenix give-away paper writer only interviews AWA pilots, and she was so balanced! NOT
Guess she doesn't have the budget to make a few phone calls to hear from the other side. Maybe if the paper could get a few more of those "scintillating singles" ads, they could afford to dig a little deeper.

An article from the PHX NEW TIMES? ah hahahahahahahahahahaha :mf_boff: they most likely got 98% of their story from this message board .... as far as news papers go , they are the equlivlant of MESA ....

You sure it wasn't a high school newspaper? And, yes, Freedom, I'm sure they took most of the information from this board! Is it one of those "free" newspapers? Like the "Argonaut" in Marina Del Rey, CA?

 

[machtuck]

Not to change the subject, but I have an honest question I wonder if a West pilot might answer...no flamebait.

Why are there two "entities" for the west guys: AWAPPA and AOL? How did that happen? Is it McIlvenna and Co @ AWAPPA and "others" at AOL?

Is this the "split MEC"...serious question, I've just wondered.

And now they may be "at odds" over how to spend YOUR money? Is that true?

(All East/West differences aside, I hope you guys don't wind up losing that $$ in some crazy pissing match.)

(20 minutes later...)
hmmm (no takers on the honest question)...back to our usual programming then...

 

[Leonidas]

Not to change the subject, but I have an honest question I wonder if a West pilot might answer...no flamebait.

Why are there two "entities" for the west guys: AWAPPA and AOL? How did that happen? Is it McIlvenna and Co @ AWAPPA and "others" at AOL?

Is this the "split MEC"...serious question, I've just wondered.

And now they may be "at odds" over how to spend YOUR money? Is that true?

(All East/West differences aside, I hope you guys don't wind up losing that $$ in some crazy pissing match.)

Awappa was formed by ex mec officers and leonidas was formed by the west merger committee, two different theories of operation, same goal of protecting west pilots thru legal action.

 

[freedom]

You sure it wasn't a high school newspaper? And, yes, Freedom, I'm sure they took most of the information from this board! Is it one of those "free" newspapers? Like the "Argonaut" in Marina Del Rey, CA?

It is a “free†publication … and don’t be fooled by any award given them … I’ve personally seen how they work from the inside , there is NO journalistic integrity at that organization . It could even be possible (I glanced at the article but didn’t read it , I don’t read any of the trash they print ) that the reporter might have been bribed to report a slanted story by someone here on the west side …

If you picked up a copy of their publication you wouldn’t be surprised to find out where they get over 50% of their advertising revenue ….. Low life’s … :down: