US Pilot Labor Thread, Aug.31st-Sep. 07

[nostradamus]

Do you think that the company would actually terminate 1800 pilots?

Parker has stated he makes decisions based on the good of the airline, not one group over another. Wouldn't it be prudent for him to seek relief from the appropriate government agency to preclude financial harm to the company while the AWAPPA/USAPA lawsuits play out in the courts?

Moot point, the surge in oil prices due to Hurricane Gustav will severely impact the leisure market which the america west side heavily relied on. Add empty company pockets, the ability for the company to ride out the storm is greatly diminished, pun intended.

Southwest Airlines is also a factor, they seem to have a great interest in the Phoenix and Las Vegas area lately, they usually are very good at predicting a competing airlines next move.

They will have no choice but to accelerate their cuts on the west side, decreasing the continued subsidization by the east coast routes.

Point, they will not need these pilots in the near future.

 

[ussnark]

Point, they will not need these pilots in the near future.

Point is, as long as there are separate contracts, they will not need "these" west pilots in the near future.

Just thought I would correct your comment to reflect realities.

 

[nostradamus]

The former alpa mec president of the america west pilots that was kicked out of office, was recently in a public meeting with the CEO of usairways, Doug Parker. Mr mcIlvenna, former alpa chairman of america west pilots told Mr Parker, CEO of USairways, that he was asking a question for one of his "friends" who could not attend the August 26th, 2008 meeting. This was a round a bout way of saying I do not have the intestinal fortitude to ask this question on my own, so I will guiltlessly ask this using my so called "friend" as an excuse for my cowardice.

The airline pilots association has continually backed Mr mcIvenna as someone who was representative of their heart and soul of airline pilots in general.

mcIvenna informed Mr Parker CEO of USairways that his "friend" has seen the East pilot with all their engines and auxiliary power units on, IE the east pilots are burning fuel to forward their cause for a better contract by sending a message to management. Mr Parker thanked the leader of the america west pilots but informed him that statistics do not prove his accusations true.

 

[N924PS]

They will have no choice but to accelerate their cuts on the west side, decreasing the continued subsidization by the east coast routes.

Point, they will not need these pilots in the near future.

I sure hope you are wrong about that.

We all saw how the "Malin Strategy" vacating the West routes (the PSA route system) back in 1991 turned out. I don't really think the East route system can be characterized as subsidizing the West system. Many of the East routes are marginally profitable, not really enough to subsidize weaker markets.

Bottom line is a reduction in force from either side does not bode well for the pilot group at large.

 

[ussnark]

Mr Parker thanked the leader of the america west pilots but informed him that statistics do not prove his accusations true.

Good point you bring up.

It seems many former AWA pilots are relying on Parker to "protect" them. I have news. He will protect them if it benefits the corporation, which is not a meme right now. The west route structure will not support the oncoming depression. I hope they all have alternatives.

 

[ussnark]

Many of the East routes are marginally profitable, not really enough to subsidize weaker markets.

So, which routes would you cut? Marginally profitable east routes or west routes subsidized by east routes?

Isn't that the point the easties are trying to make? After all, you said it yourself.

 

[Ralph]

New week, new thread. Keep it on topic and not personal. Thanks.

(The reason the replies above this one are there is they were moved from the previous week thread. The system sorts by time posted; so, they appear ahead of this one.)

 

[boeingtamer]

I hope I'm not violating any board rules but I'm repeating this post since I posted just before the cutover to the new thread and I didn't get any answers.

What's the status of non dues payment for delinquent USAPA represented pilots? Are there any AWA pilots still holding out?

The May 16th Hemenway letter laid out the following steps to be followed to deal with non-paying pilots:
1. USAPA must notify delinquent pilots via certified mail, return receipt requested that they have 15 day to settle their arrears.

Have any such letters been sent out?

2. If no payment is made after 15 days, USAPA must notify the company and the delinquent pilot of the non-payment.

Also, have we gotten to this point yet with any pilot?

3. The company must take steps to discharge the pilot.

Wondering what's involved and how long this process might take? Is it happening?

4. The pilot has 5 days from notification of his discharge to initiate a grievance regarding the discharge.

"Unless there is some reason to believe that the pilot is not actually in arrears, the company can be forced to terminate employment of a pilot that has failed to pay dues or a service charge."

I guess whining "We don't have a union!" or "We hate those guys!" is not going to cut it as a defense for non payment.

It has been 2 1/2 months since this process could have begun. Perhaps it would prudent for the company to pursue this before any furloughs actually take affect with their attendant costs. If enough Westies decide to avoid payment and surrender their jobs, the Nic issue might be much less of a problem.

Just wondering.

BT a happy USAPA Cactus pilot(as of tomorrow)"

 

[nostradamus]

I sure hope you are wrong about that.

We all saw how the "Malin Strategy" vacating the West routes (the PSA route system) back in 1991 turned out. I don't really think the East route system can be characterized as subsidizing the West system. Many of the East routes are marginally profitable, not really enough to subsidize weaker markets.

The strategy of vacating the psa routes was very beneficial for usairways at that time. It was a very decisive move by The CEO of USairways, Mr Colodny. The Wal Mart of aviation Southwest Airlines entered the market with employess that had limited health insurance, pension benifits and wages.

This move has to be made soon by the present CEO. The quote that described the market out west was best described by Mr Colodny while at that time he was exiting the market, "the airline passengers out west would complain if you allowed them to fly on your airline for free."

The above poster N924PS was with the airline PSA when it was acquired by USair in 1991. USair abandoned all the routes and planes that they acquired by PSA. It only kept the pilots and flight attendants and allowed them their date of hire they had at their original airline.

The poster above N924US has benefited by his original date of hire, but if you read his post history, he believes that no one else has that right that he benefited from, if it interferes with his own self gain. This is why in his very weak way, he is quoted above trying to say that psa benefited the present USairways in any way, shape or form. He is not only weak but wrong.

 

[EastUS]

The former alpa mec president of the america west pilots that was kicked out of office, was recently in a public meeting with the CEO of usairways, Doug Parker. Mr mcIlvenna, former alpa chairman of america west pilots told Mr Parker, CEO of USairways, that he was asking a question for one of his "friends" who could not attend the August 26th, 2008 meeting. This was a round a bout way of saying I do not have the intestinal fortitude to ask this question on my own, so I will guiltlessly ask this using my so called "friend" as an excuse for my cowardice.

Indeed sir. I was also, much impressed by that personal demonstration as to how much "INTEGRITY MATTERS" = "my "friend" said"... Actually?...I was truly most impressed by the tongue marks left on managements shoe soles during the futile exchange....Yuck!! What better "leadership"could any person hope for?

"The airline pilots association has continually backed Mr mcIvenna as someone who was representative of their heart and soul of airline pilots in general." That said individual was an acknowledged lesser Imp of Alpo should surprise anyone..umm...how? 😉

"mcIvenna informed Mr Parker CEO of USairways that his "friend" has seen the East pilot with all their engines and auxiliary power units on, IE the east pilots are burning fuel to forward their cause for a better contract by sending a message to management. Mr Parker thanked the leader of the america west pilots but informed him that statistics do not prove his accusations true." Sadly...that will have not the least effect on those, for whom their "feeeeelings" are all, logic is nothing, and the pursuit of advancement for "ME' is ALL = "and we hate you guys"/etc ad nauseum.

" will guiltlessly ask this using my so called "friend" as an excuse for my cowardice." Couldn't have put it better...another "Spartan Hero" in action, defending his "Ideals" and "INTEGRITY MATTERS" to the absurdly hypocritical end...Being the 'end" of the time when anyone with even a room temperature IQ will eventually, ever bother even listening to such nonsense......

 

[boeingtamer]

Do you think that the company would actually terminate 1800 pilots?

The way I read it the company has no choice but to follow the contract as explained by the Hemenway letter. In reality it will only take a handful of terminations to bring the majority of Westies running with their wallets. The fact that any former-AWA pilot feels he's not being fairly represented by USAPA may be grounds for a suit but is not grounds for not paying the federally mandated representational fee. That is a wholly other issue and would have no bearing on the validity of any termination for non-payment. IMHO

 

[EastUS]

Bottom line is a reduction in force from either side does not bode well for the pilot group at large.

I've complete agreement with that, and can't find even the slightest delight in seeing anyone furloughed...EVER...and I don't care if they're of the "and we hate you guys" level of utter stupidity and self serving, delusional fantasies. We're all in this mess together.........and even the most unlikely candidates for ever getting that may awaken one day.....Umm...it must be confessed that I've been accused of being a misguided, romantic idealist though... I'm working on that 😉

 

[N924PS]

[quote name='nostradamus' date='Aug 31 2008, 09:00 PM' post='63710

The poster above N924US has benefited by his original date of hire, but if you read his post history, he believes that no one else has that right that he benefited from, if it interferes with his own self gain. This is why in his very weak way, he is quoted above trying to say that psa benefited the present USairways in any way, shape or form. He is not only weak but wrong.
[/quote]


As always, I can count on you to turn whatever I post into a personal attack.

You are a weak person if all you can do is attack someone that diverges from your astrological predictions and rantings. And that is truly wrong and sad.

 

[EastUS]

As always, I can count on you to turn whatever I post into a personal attack.

You are a weak person if all you can do is attack someone that diverges from your astrological predictions and rantings. And that is truly wrong and sad.

"You are a weak person if all you can do is attack someone that diverges from your...."

Oh...I don't know about that N924...You were absolutely fine with attacking, while defending your personally, and effusively thanked by you, "war hero"..NicelandingCaptain..for no apparent, logical cause other than the fact that you and I often disagree. 🙄 Does that behavior qualify you as a "weak person" sir? 😉

Seriously kids..we can and should be able to freely disagree, and speak on anything as best suits our perspectives.....period. If feathers get ruffled? = Big Deal. We can call each other on whatever did such...and get on with the points at hand.

 

[nostradamus]

[quote name='nostradamus' date='Aug 31 2008, 09:00 PM' post='63710
As always, I can count on you to turn whatever I post into a personal attack.

You are a weak person if all you can do is attack someone that diverges from your astrological predictions and rantings. And that is truly wrong and sad.

You did not, because you could not, defend my statements regarding you and your former airline, PSA.

A post, pointing out the ignorance of your post, is not a personal attack. It is my duty as a contributor of this board to give my personal opinion regarding your personal opinion.

May I add, if someone is inclined to research, this is one of many times you cried for a moderator and accused me of a personal attack when I tried to keep you honest.

)Disclaimer.(

USairways has benefited from having many employees that were former PSA.