US Pilots Labor Discussion-Aug 5 to 12-KEEP ON TOPIC

[EastUS]

QUOTE (spike99 @ Aug 5 2009, 08:25 PM) *
Did or did not the West MEC demand the East pay rates not be brought up to parity with the West rates?

We did.

Yes...you did.

So much for ANYTHING else we need ever reasonably listen to from the west about, well...anythng at all, EVER, except of course, the often stated position of west posters that they'd gleefully cross any USAPA picket line.

 

[EastUS]

You continue to demonstrate your ignorance of the legal system. An accusation does not make anyone guilty.

So no they are not guilty. You can only say that if a proper court says so.

So...according to your Court-worshipping "logic" there....OJay was clearly "Not Gulity" of those murders then? I mean..really; there's clearly no room in that world-view for any semblance of common sense, and "You can only say that if a proper court says so." after all.

Folks..one just couldn't ever even begin to make that sort of nonsense up. :blink:

 

[luvn737s]

I see you didn't actually answer the question. I'd also like to see your breakdown of the CASM between the East and West. I don't believe you can distinguish the difference in any actual company documentation. The high cost of an ineffectual management team is borne by all equally.

The post merger CASM (that of the NEW USAirways) is higher than the CASM of AWA. Simple subtraction will yield the impact of the inefficiency of the OLD USAirways.

AWA relied on productivity and efficiency to generate profits where airlines such as US could not. Now the higher costs are making it difficult if not impossible to make profits in those very same markets. Think of it as the Titanic Effect.

 

[EastUS]

Maybe you could quote the law that says a ringing phone is a crime.

It would be a good idea to move on from something you know nothing about.

I've a suggested and purely hypothetical exercise that might prove somewhat educational here = Why don't you imagine dialing 911 a few hundred or thousand times and then get back to us on that? I admit that's legally, arguably a step above intentionally tying up an emergency safety hotline for a union's pilots to otherwise have available....but..some might at least see some moral similarity.."some" that is, though clearly not the west.....

 

[88 B.T.D.]

This state clearly any successor union must use the Nicolau. Change names to usapa II. It is the Nicolau. Change to ALPA, Nicolau. Merge with UAL, ALPA uses Nicolau.

Actually Wakes order {line 24-28} says must use Nicolau in negotiations with company, not another union (ALPA). That doesn't mean he can't be asked to extend that to other forums, but he would then be overstepping his authority in my view.

The new union would probably want to protect itself by coming to some kind of aggreement prior to agreeing to the merger. With 99 hire UAL pilots on the street now, it may not be as much of a joy to return to ALPA as you might think.

(I don't have any idea how any of this would turn out, but if it looks like things would not be favorable to the larger group, UAL or AMR, I have no doubts they will use any influence they can to put the whammy on any merger.)

 

[EastUS]

With 99 hire UAL pilots on the street now, it may not be as much of a joy to return to ALPA as you might think.

Indeed. I'm "sure" though, that given a proper west explanation of the nic's true 'benefits", that the UAL group would instantly agree to the thought of permanently placing 2004-5 AWA hires above those people.....No doubt whatsoever.

 

[luvn737s]

Did those UAL 747 manuals ever show up in the mail?

Has USAPA hosted the UAL MEC to lay out what fine representation they have to offer?

Heck, send the Taurus to pick them up!

 

[luvn737s]

Rule of Law = "Court Worshipping"
Anonymous calls to an unanswered line= 911 abuse
Inability to see beyond own perspective = "All ears"
Legitimate arbitration award = "Lottery Ticket"
Desire to see justice unimpeded = "Mine mine mine..."
Deluded="Supremely confident"


In case anyone has had a hard time finding a USAPA translator.

 

[HPDriver]

...for the same company.

It's NOT the same company.

We've moved on from that a LONG time ago.

 

[UtterlyUdder]

It's NOT the same company.

We've moved on from that a LONG time ago.

Just a friendly reminder to you and the rest of the Westies: The West pilots did not buy USAirways, Doug Parker did. The way you people post here shows that you forgot that one little detail.

 

[HPDriver]

Just a friendly reminder to you and the rest of the Westies: The West pilots did not buy USAirways, Doug Parker did. The way you people post here shows that you forgot that one little detail.

1. Where the hell did you get that from?!!?

2. Admins don't want a discussion on who bought whom and I don't care to bring it up.

3. It's about the Nic, nothing more.

 

[flybynite]

It's NOT the same company.

We've moved on from that a LONG time ago.

Yes, we are a Hybrid and we need to start thinking like one.

 

[luvn737s]

I see that Cleary sent a letter to Randy Babbit offering USAPA's assistance in improving the piloting profession. I don't think he even used the term ALPO once.

Babbit must have been from the "good old" (highest wages in the industry) ALPA, not the "bad old"(bipartisan negotiated seniority integration) ALPA.

 

[Barrister]

Did those UAL 747 manuals ever show up in the mail?

Has USAPA hosted the UAL MEC to lay out what fine representation they have to offer?

Heck, send the Taurus to pick them up!

Have at least a dozen friends at UAL. An election between USAPA and ALPA would be very close. A large (didn't say majority) of UAL guys hate ALPA

 

[Barrister]

The post merger CASM (that of the NEW USAirways) is higher than the CASM of AWA. Simple subtraction will yield the impact of the inefficiency of the OLD USAirways.

AWA relied on productivity and efficiency to generate profits where airlines such as US could not. Now the higher costs are making it difficult if not impossible to make profits in those very same markets. Think of it as the Titanic Effect.

Yea Luvn, that why one of your bases is practically closed and the other one will eventually be closed. NOT gloating at all.... it sucks. But you see, we have been there.....none of you WANT to come east but 1700 of you eventually WILL be based here, that it why....VNIIMN