US Pilots' Labor Thread 6/24-6/30 Stay On Topic

[aquagreen73s]

I have a hard time believing that such a large number of professional, intelligent pilots would have left ALPA without some serious thought and commitment.

The difference now is that the Great Lie has been exposed. A lot of smart people were swindled by Bernie Madoff, so the USAPA debacle is nothing new. This kind of stuff happens.

 

[Nicstolemyjob]

Whether to move on is a personal decision that involves each pilot's most important considerations in their life. For just about all of us, that's family. Group II captains might be telling you what you want to hear, but at the end of the day it comes down to what is best for them. And the facts are clear that your committment to rectify your imagined hardships is now standing in the way to them having a heck of a better schedule, more money, and more time with their families. Your imagined hardships are superfluous to them, but don't expect them to say that to your face.

I didn't know you were clairvoyant too.

Have you heard from my long-dead grandmother too?

Get real.

You are severely outnumbered by the very category of east pilots that will not sign with a Nic...doesn't matter if a dozen guys will..

But don't take my word for it.

PS: say hi to granny for me.

 

[Nicstolemyjob]

Why should all of the US Airways pilots suffer any longer than necessary under the present awful contracts, especially the East? It seems quite selfish for the affected "angry f/o's" and some of the very junior captains to expect the entire group to pay the price, because they are unhappy with/ and unwilling to accept the the legally-binding seniority integration.

I'll answer with a question of my own. How much money do you think Parker will throw at a new contract?

The Kirby?...don't make me laugh.

And any such joint contract with a Nic in section 22 will need extraordinary compensation in other areas to even get a whiff of interest out east since nobody will upgrade in their attrition line under the Nic.

end.

 

[EastUS]

FACT: Nicolau is OVER and the only way to improvement is through a joint contract.

Barring any consideration at all of LOA93/84 of course, or the beneficial effects on east people who'd be able to upgrade/enhance their schedules/etc without having nic in place. In other words...just more west fantasy asserted as "FACT"

FACT: Southwest FedEx/UPS do far better than either of your listed comparisons. Why didn't you put them in?
FACT: East pilots have previously enjoyed contracts that your west people can still only dream of....What does any of that have to do with contemporary reality? =We know how very transient such gains can be. You appear completely clueless in evaluating the effects of that knowledge. Even on purely mercenary terms; something truly awesome would be needed to offset the nic abomination, in order to secure a positive contract vote.

As for your assumed knowledge of the "90%" of east captains being ready and willing to cave in for nic...well...I must not hear what I actually do hear at the workplace, and must also be within that tiny 10%..along with most everyone I talk with. Without doubt; the finest possible way to accurately assess east opinion..is to ask a westie I call to your memory the never-to-be-forgotten west "Certainty" and "FACT" of "You won't even get 200 cards!!!" I also wish to recall your very own, actually accurate observation immediately after the nic was announced..that it would be prudent to "expect some repercussions from the east". How soon we forget, it seems....

 

[aquagreen73s]

Attack the messenger all you want, but it won't change reality.

 

[EastUS]

Attack the messenger all you want, but it won't change reality.

Reality? = "And any such joint contract with a Nic in section 22 will need extraordinary compensation in other areas to even get a whiff of interest out east since nobody will upgrade in their attrition line under the Nic."

 

[Nicstolemyjob]

Attack the messenger all you want, but it won't change reality.

I'm attacking your proclaimation of what east pilots think or want.

You know neither, yet profess to...

I couldn't care less about you....just what you post about the personal beliefs of east pilots.

I'm an east pilot...I think I know better than you do.

 

[aquagreen73s]

I'm an east pilot...I think I know better than you do.

Let me get this straight. Group II captains are going to forego $2,500 to $4,000 a month and a much improved schedule just so you can achieve separate ops in order to partially fulfill what USAPA set out to do. At first you wanted to overturn the entire Nicolau Arbitration and raid West jobs, but when you're rebuffed by a unanimous jury and a federal judge then you think Plan B of permanent separate ops is viable. In the meantime, all of those Group II captains will be giving up big money for the rest of their career just to help you subvert Nicolau.

Right.

 

[EastUS]

Let me get this straight. Group II captains are going to forego $2,500 to $4,000 a month and a much improved schedule just so you can achieve separate ops in order to partially fulfill what USAPA set out to do. At first you wanted to overturn the entire Nicolau Arbitration and raid West jobs, but when you're rebuffed by a unanimous jury and a federal judge then you think Plan B of permanent separate ops is viable. In the meantime, all of those Group II captains will be giving up big money for the rest of their career just to help you subvert Nicolau.

Right.

Well...It's certainly clear what you would do in that situation. One generally errs whenever assuming one's thoughts and "values" to be universal.

In any case..let's wait and see what happens with the LOA arbitration/conflict, and the addington appeal process...shall we? Hint = We shall..regardless of any/all west ranting.

Have a good evening.

 

[hp_fa]

In the meantime, all of those Group II captains will be giving up big money for the rest of their career just to help you subvert Nicolau.

Here is the way that can happen.

USAPA throws the Group II pilots under the bus (again) by not working as diligently as they can on a new contract. Oh, they will do enough to not be in violation of a Court order, just not enough to succeed.

Call it "Success By Failure". I'll waive trademark rights.

 

[AWE_SHUCKS]

So without the merger that airplane would not be on the property therefore you still would be on furlough. That airplane is not in the transition. So if the company decided that thet wanted to fly it in the west system should you be furloughed because the flying was reduced in the east?

The freight train is running down the tracks. It is unstoppable. The Nicolau is here to stay there is no compromise, there is no changing it. Time to accept that and move on.

without the merger, you (and I) would be unemployed so don't waste time with the rhetoric, it cuts both ways.

 

[aquagreen73s]

HP, you assume the same group stays in power at the union.

USAPA Watch is on to something when they implore West pilots to join. Their math makes sense and I think they're right when they say there's enough on the East to push this over the top in a way that everyone would prefer: through the democratic process within the union.

 

[AWE_SHUCKS]

I have to say that I'm growing weary of all the Whining from the E190 group. You knew the pay was going to suck when you accepted recall.

actually I bypassed the 190 and accepted recall to the 737 as was my option, there is nothing contractual that protected me from downgrade to the 190 so im not complaining about it. With regard to your weariness, why don't you quit then and spare us all from anymore contact with you? you see how that works...what a waste of time corresponding in that fashion.

 

[hp_fa]

HP, you assume the same group stays in power at the union.

USAPA Watch is on to something when they implore West pilots to join. Their math makes sense and I think they're right when they say there's enough on the East to push this over the top in a way that everyone would prefer: through the democratic process within the union.

So far, from what I gather, the West pilots don't seem to be breaking down any doors. Also, the current USAPA crowd has just been voted in so they have awhile to go on there current terms. Finally, and most damning, the East folks don't seem to like to recall people so that there wouldn't appear to be any real pressure to be applied to the BPR members.

 

[aquagreen73s]

So far, from what I gather, the West pilots don't seem to be breaking down any doors.

That'll be changing as the remedy sets in. This has been an emotional process and it takes a lot of thought to break through the emotion. A year ago USAPA was the worst thing that could ever have happened to the West. But the remedy changes everything as the idea that propelled USAPA into existence has been obliterated. Staying on the sidelines for a West pilot makes little sense at this point. One lingering question on the West involves what is owed, ie the Susie arbitration, but that too will be settled any day now. Also, USAPA isn't wasting any time with the Section 29s, so they will get the dues money. Once a West pilot is paid up, he or she might as well stay current and vote.

Also, the current USAPA crowd has just been voted in so they have awhile to go on there current terms. Finally, and most damning, the East folks don't seem to like to recall people so that there wouldn't appear to be any real pressure to be applied to the BPR members.

If that's true, then the Group II captains will be pissing away 30k-50k a year for the rest of their careers. But if enough of them just pay dues along with all of the West pilots, then there's a majority. One out of four East pilots is all it will take.