US sniper shot at Koran in Iraq

[KCFlyer]

If you happen to come upon Osama Bin Laden while he was reading the Koran would you hold your fire until he put it down. What about all of those buildings that we have blown up? Do you suppose there was a Koran lying around somewhere in the middle of the firestorm? Where is the outrage about that?

Oh...I'd shoot....IF we were still hunting for bin laden. But we gave up that hunt a long time ago.

 

[Veritas]

If you happen to come upon Osama Bin Laden while he was reading the Koran would you hold your fire until he put it down. What about all of those buildings that we have blown up? Do you suppose there was a Koran lying around somewhere in the middle of the firestorm? Where is the outrage about that?

There is a major difference between destroying a Koran in the heat of a battle, where the damage is most likely collateral, and using it for target practice where the only possible intent is to spite and incite the local population.

 

[EastUS]

If you happen to come upon Osama Bin Laden while he was reading the Koran would you hold your fire until he put it down. What about all of those buildings that we have blown up? Do you suppose there was a Koran lying around somewhere in the middle of the firestorm? Where is the outrage about that?

"Do you suppose there was a Koran lying around somewhere in the middle of the firestorm? Where is the outrage about that?" Heavy Sigh...you're trying to do that "logic thing" here.. I alrady gave that a try, via noting that killing peope on either side.. "might" possibly..well...err.. "maybe" should count a little more than lifeless books....but..no matter.

"If you happen to come upon Osama Bin Laden while he was reading the Koran would you hold your fire until he put it down."
Ummm...do you want the rational answer?...or the "liberal-touchy-feely" one?

Let's start withe the second, and saddest case:

"liberal-touchy-feely": "Ummm...We need more information!. Is that for certain, and beyond ANY possible doubt OBL? Let's send a delegation with UN sponsership even. Have we tried Diplomacy? Can we try it again?...and again?...and yet again? (The delegation arrives at the Mosque, both UN and White Flags proudly held high)) Ah...We can't interrupt any devout muslim practicing his religion..and he's studying a Holy Book as we speak. Wait..it's worse!..I think he's sitting on the steps of the Holy Mosque! We must NOT do ANYTHING to precipitate violence against any such a shrine...or he'll get mad at us. Oh No!..He's seen us...and he's gone inside the Holy Mosque for weapons!..Worse!! He's now shooting at us!..(Pop!..Ba-Zing!/etc) Ummm..let's try diplomacy again. (Ricochet bullet sounds in the background) What did we say wrong?.(Blam) .What did we do to offend him in any way? (Ratatatatt) Set up a staff meeting to see how we failed in our attempts to communicate and explore what possible cultural barriers we stupidly overstepped. (Sound of RPG grenade going off) If he just finally understands us..he'll spare us all (IED explodes nearby)...I'm sure..after all..we're all human and just want to love and feel loved, nurtured and cared for. Violence is terrible and he MUST feel forced into killing us... (Blam! Ka-blooey!/rattatat!)...umm...staff?...staff? are any of you still alive?...Oh I'm so sorry....It's ALL our fault somehow!...I won't let you all die in vain..I see him coming forward..I'll use more diplomacy...here he comes..Wait!!...no!..NOooo! (Blam)..Arrrgh!. 🙄

The "rational answer?... = "Thunder One, your target is OBL at xyz coordinates...weapons free...you are cleared in hot". Pregnant Pause......KABOOOM!!

 

[EastUS]

There is a major difference between destroying a Koran in the heat of a battle, where the damage is most likely collateral, and using it for target practice where the only possible intent is to spite and incite the local population.

That's about the most utterly agendized, self-serving, brain-dead, total BS I've yet read. My honest guess is that "the only possible intent" was merely to blow off a little steam, while being stuck in that hell-hole..and see how tight a grouping he'd get. If he wanted "to incite the local population"....he'd have ample opprtunities to do so by actually shooting at some of THEM on a fairly routine basis...or have you forgotten where this was taking place?

PS: How about if, during an actual engagement..some bozo's holding up a Koran in front of himself?...as opposed to the more standard usage of children, women and any other humans as "shields" for the "Holy Warriors"...Test question now....pressure's on = Shoot him through the Koran...or not? Aww..that's almost...umm..err..kinda' easy you say...well..it gets worse fast. Test Question #2: A "holy Bookstore" replete with Korans and other religious material....is a known terrorist safe-house. Bomb and or attack the place?...or don't. After all..we MUST be, at ALL times...mostly concerned with everyone's "feelings" and "sensibilities"....Sheesh!

 

[Veritas]

That's about the most utterly agendized, self-serving, brain-dead, total BS I've yet read.

You must not be reading the garbage that you post.

 

[EastUS]

You must not be reading the garbage that you post.

Bis'mAllah!..Western Satan! Infidel Dog!...You have offended my sensibilites!...MY sacred and untouchable sensibilites, (as a devout follower of the Great Prophet, and a True Believer!!and Member of the Faithful!!..yadda, yadda...yawn)...My pesonal brand of religious BS has been attacked and dishonored! I must immediately call for Jihad! 🙄

Sheesh!..Don't even the most "liberal" among you get way-past-sick of defending such BS, and insistently kissing the arses of the lunatics who're so easilly "offended" with every breath ANY westerner..and at least, semi-civilized person, ever takes?.....EVER?

 

[EastUS]

#3: It turns out that, as an elaborate and unlikely cover...a mixed-religion and largely christian book store is then selected for a terrorist safe-house. Bombing it = OK by you?...Is it entirely just a question of not offending muslims?...or..does ANYONE else anywhere, actually have any "rights to sensibilities"?...and...most importantly..should ANY given groups' taking "offence" dictate our collective behavior towards them....and ourselves?

 

[Seatacus]

Did you just need to see your name in print and that was the best you could come up with? If you are unable to see the difference in intent there is nothing I can say to help you.

I can only aspire that someday I may reach the level of acumen you display in your postings. What a tool you are...............

 

[EastUS]

I can only aspire that someday I may reach your level of acumen you display in your postings. What a tool you are...............

When the most brilliant gems they have in the store to show are, in respnse to your posting=

QUOTE (Cosworth @ May 23 2008, 04:10 PM)
Did you just need to see your name in print and that was the best you could come up with? "

and..to mine: Veritas: "You must not be reading the garbage that you post."

Well.. Neg perspiration Sea 😉....Whenever "they" are down to the usual "Waah!...Whatta' you mean you don't agree with me!!?? I'm really, really smart...just ask me!!" or any similarly presumptive, and arrogant insults...you know you've got 'em on the run Sheesh!..So much for being so tenderly, ond oh-so- completely, and overly concerned with the beliefs and feelings of others 😉

 

[Gilding the Lily]

Perhaps the soldier's actions were in direct conflict with a commanding officer's directive? I do not know if it was -- I would rely on someone who is more familiar with such directives (such as soldiers under the same command).

I do know, however, that this soldier's actions cannot be reconciled with the Counterinsurgency Field Manual. This Field Manual was issued directly to the soldiers by the Army and Marines and it was authored, in part, by General Petraeus. According to the Manual, U.S. Forces are to show "respect for local religions and traditions." I believe that shooting the local population's holy book and writing "graffiti" on the inside is not showing respect for the local religion.

By including such directions in the Field Manual, it is apparent that the Army HQ takes seriously the role of religious respect in its counterinsurgency operations in Iraq. I would assume also that the Military recognized the potential negative ramifications if soldiers routinely ignored the Field Manual and displayed significant disrespect for local religion.

I do not make any judgments as to whether the punishment was appropriate (or the public apology for that matter). I also do not make any judgments as to whether such language should by included in the Field Manual, but I am fairly confident in saying that this soldier's actions were in direct conflict with the principles and guidelines set forth by the Army and Marines. Thus, I am also fairly confident that a punishment, of some reasonable sort, was appropriate under the circumstances.

 

[EastUS]

Perhaps the soldier's actions were in direct conflict with a commanding officer's directive? I do not know if it was -- I would rely on someone who is more familiar with such directives (such as soldiers under the same command).
Thus, I am also fairly confident that a punishment, of some reasonable sort, was appropriate under the circumstances.

I'm OK with the "punishment" = He got to return HOME..and alive, and even healthy...what a "punishment" 😉

Since even our snipers are now, through some utterly perverse and wholesale insanity...supposed to be "diplomats"....I'd suggest immediately just sending ALL the evil western/infidel soldiers home..especially when they need "punishment", properly directed at their evident failures to, (when they're not busy dodging IED blasts, and incoming of all types)...to universally kiss-arse to all those around..including those that have happily murdered thousands of their comrades, and routinely try to kill them of course.

Actually?..I'm thinking that the best course would be to just have the entire USA immediately convert to Islam..since we certainly don't dare ever offend such folk in any way. Ah heck..fetch me 4 women dressed in tents already...and throw in a pre-frontal lobotomy..and I'll be fine. It'd solve a lot of problems..oil prices would go down..and liberal democrats would quickly become extinct. Heck!...Screw all this stupid Freeedom stuff..that's only for any societies with actual spines. Without said spines, guts, and heart-felt convictions, coupled with a willingness to fight/die for it..Freedom....Goes...Away...period. When our society insanely places the "values" of external "cultures" above having any, even slight respect for the beliefs, traditions and values of even our own fighting people....It's just a matter of time anyway. Allah! Akbar!...Everyone happy now? 😉

 

[KCFlyer]

I'm OK with the "punishment" = He got to return HOME..and alive, and even healthy...what a "punishment" 😉

It's my hope then that EVERY American over there serving in Bush's hunt for bin laden...ERRRRR...liberation of Iraqi's may get punished.

 

[Veritas]

Well.. Neg perspiration Sea 😉....Whenever "they" are down to the usual "Waah!...Whatta' you mean you don't agree with me!!?? I'm really, really smart...just ask me!!" or any similarly presumptive, and arrogant insults...you know you've got 'em on the run Sheesh!..So much for being so tenderly, ond oh-so- completely, and overly concerned with the beliefs and feelings of others 😉

Now I understand why you wrote the following:

That's about the most utterly agendized, self-serving, brain-dead, total BS I've yet read.

 

[local 12 proud]

Yep, send them all home and lets all set back and watch the middle east implode.

 

[EastUS]

Now I understand why you wrote the following:

Actually?..Imho: You very clearly don't "understand" 🙄 Human nature hasn't changed since..oh...say..at least the start of any/all known history, and caving in to any who wish your society and yourself destroyed is no more an "intelligent" concept today than it was in the era of Attila the Hun. It's completely sane and fully reasonable to seek methods of getting along with others. It becomes completey insane behavior whenever said others are adamantly intent upon your demise or enslavement, and no amount of "touchy-feely" fantasies serve to alter that very harsh reality in the slightest. The "big concern" herein is with a disgrunteld soldier shooting a book. That's right folks...not mistakenly killing any innocent person..but shooting a freaking book. THAT, ladies and gentlemen....is...not only evidence of skewed "priorities" in extremis..but simply, clinically INSANE "thinking" at any level or angle I can approach it from. I only wish that any/all of such a mindset could personally take a "field trip" to the middle east themselves. (Toto...I don't think we're in Kansas anymore) I'd be very interested to hear the perspectives held after their returning home...assuming that they survived of course.