Value of Concessions

[Duke787]

Making excuses? What is stopping management from doing away with the "deadwood"? Sure they have to "work" at it and "build a case" but it isnt that hard, but it is work, and its part of their job.

The guys who showed up at the gate with a cup of coffee, did management say anything to them?

You dont get steak for the price of baloney. Why would you give the same effort when there is no chance that the effort will be monetarily recognized? Thats whats killing the profession, if you are willing to give it away then you should not be shocked when the company places no value on it either.

When corporate executives work night shift and never nodd off then I'll agree that there's no excuse for nodding off at night. I dont care what profession you are in, if there is down time and its 3 or 4am people will nodd off. Makiing beds and hiding when there is work to be done is another story.

Do you actually believe that if our guys jumped even higher that the company would be willing to pay us more? Look at the facts, AA brings in over a $100,000 a year more per worker than they did in 2003, and they pay us less than they did in 2003 and in exchange for more concessions they want to continue to pay us less than they did in 2003. Productivity is up but they still arent offering anything. They will never offer more than you demand.

I'll agree with you that management hasn't done their job with the deadwood, but what "professional" needs to have a member of management monitoring his every move? Besides at ORD we have one manager to run H and K concourse, as well as the ER operation and the avionics shop. The one manager should expect a "professional" to do his job to the best of his ability's.

At ORD there is a company called Flight Check that is a contract maint company started by laid off Delta mechs. They pay their mechs $30 an hour without benny's, I believe they pay less if you get benny's. Do you think these guys are denigrating our profession? A couple of years ago during the downturn they cut the mechs pay to $27.50, but recently brought them back to $30. I think they are trying to have a viable business. I think you are dragging us all down when you admit on a public forum that you give less effort in your chosen "profession" because you're not getting paid what you want. Especially in such a critical job as ours.

In 2003 our union voted in the MOAC, if not TUL probably would have been closed, yes I've read your thoughts on it's cheaper to keep OH in house, but I disagree with you, based on the fact that all the bankrupt airlines did away with the majority of their in house OH, and now those company's are doing better, if it was cheaper I'm sure they would have kept it all. Look at SWA, they're a strong airline and they don't do their own.

The bottom line is, nobody is forcing you to work at AA, I'm sure can get a job making $35 an hour anywhere. Why work at a place you hate being at ? You can start your own flight check and pay your mechs $50 an hour, that will show AA how a real "professional" does it. Or you can sit back and complain about the union and the company.

 

[paul1]

The bottom line is, nobody is forcing you to work at AA, I'm sure can get a job making $35 an hour anywhere. Why work at a place you hate being at ? You can start your own flight check and pay your mechs $50 an hour, that will show AA how a real "professional" does it. Or you can sit back and complain about the union and the company.

your right duke no is forcing us to work here at AA. I for one am not looking to quit either. but i'm sure you are not going to hire in at $35 hour any place

just this year the twu lost jobs for fueling eagle planes a new company came in asig (euro co. traded on the london stock exchange) they pay there fuelers $8.75 hour they will never top out out $30 dollar a hour

www.asig.com

maybe if we could get some of the whiners here at AA to quit because every place is so much better, but thats not going to happen one of them is sitting here bitching about this place right now,but sure the hell is not doing anything to make things better here and it doesn't look like hes quitting any time soon

those are the guys dragging down are profession

to bad

 

[comatose]

I'll agree with you that management hasn't done their job with the deadwood, but what "professional" needs to have a member of management monitoring his every move? Besides at ORD we have one manager to run H and K concourse, as well as the ER operation and the avionics shop. The one manager should expect a "professional" to do his job to the best of his ability's.

At ORD there is a company called Flight Check that is a contract maint company started by laid off Delta mechs. They pay their mechs $30 an hour without benny's, I believe they pay less if you get benny's. Do you think these guys are denigrating our profession? A couple of years ago during the downturn they cut the mechs pay to $27.50, but recently brought them back to $30. I think they are trying to have a viable business. I think you are dragging us all down when you admit on a public forum that you give less effort in your chosen "profession" because you're not getting paid what you want. Especially in such a critical job as ours.

In 2003 our union voted in the MOAC, if not TUL probably would have been closed, yes I've read your thoughts on it's cheaper to keep OH in house, but I disagree with you, based on the fact that all the bankrupt airlines did away with the majority of their in house OH, and now those company's are doing better, if it was cheaper I'm sure they would have kept it all. Look at SWA, they're a strong airline and they don't do their own.

The bottom line is, nobody is forcing you to work at AA, I'm sure can get a job making $35 an hour anywhere. Why work at a place you hate being at ? You can start your own flight check and pay your mechs $50 an hour, that will show AA how a real "professional" does it. Or you can sit back and complain about the union and the company.

Duke, you could say that I also don’t and won’t go above and beyond because I’m not getting paid what I’m worth. I consider myself a contractor and unfortunately I have the TWU ineptly agreeing to substandard contracts. The company doesn’t pay me to care so I don’t. If they paid me to care, dam straight dependability would also increase.

I get sick and tired of the moronic talk of just quit and work somewhere else. That’s one of the reasons for the contract article for seniority. Seniority is at my age is nothing more than an anchor around my neck. I’m not going back to low man on the totem pole and throw away 25yrs.

I’m sorry, but you are so misguided if you think Bob’s dragging us down.

 

[Just the facts]

I've worked with many guys who claim that "when the company pays me what I'm worth..." blah, blah, blah. The reality is that these guys aren't going to change their ways regardless of what they are paid. They are useless Deadwood.

The only time the mech. I mentioned in an separate post stayed awake was when we had a supervisor that wasn't afraid to keep an eye on him. Still that was all he was able to accomplish. The guy still didn't put forth an honest days work.

I believe it takes more than management to tell us to do our jobs. We must also hold ourselves accountable. Guys like the above drag our profession down and hold the rest of us back.

Thankfully I do see hope for our profession when reading some of the comments from Duke and others.

 

[Interested]

I've worked with many guys who claim that "when the company pays me what I'm worth..." blah, blah, blah. The reality is that these guys aren't going to change their ways regardless of what they are paid. They are useless Deadwood.

The only time the mech. I mentioned in an separate post stayed awake was when we had a supervisor that wasn't afraid to keep an eye on him. Still that was all he was able to accomplish. The guy still didn't put forth an honest days work.

I believe it takes more than management to tell us to do our jobs. We must also hold ourselves accountable. Guys like the above drag our profession down and hold the rest of us back.

Thankfully I do see hope for our profession when reading some of the comments from Duke and others.

I agree with what you say here, that WE MUST HOLD OURSELVES ACCOUNTABLE. I do believe it called a good work ethic.

 

[paul1]

just the facts

RIGHT ON

 

[Imjustsayin]

I've worked with many guys who claim that "when the company pays me what I'm worth..." blah, blah, blah. The reality is that these guys aren't going to change their ways regardless of what they are paid. They are useless Deadwood.

The only time the mech. I mentioned in an separate post stayed awake was when we had a supervisor that wasn't afraid to keep an eye on him. Still that was all he was able to accomplish. The guy still didn't put forth an honest days work.

I believe it takes more than management to tell us to do our jobs. We must also hold ourselves accountable. Guys like the above drag our profession down and hold the rest of us back.

Thankfully I do see hope for our profession when reading some of the comments from Duke and others.

Nice to see someone bucking the worn out "woes me" babble - thanks.

 

[Duke787]

Duke, you could say that I also don’t and won’t go above and beyond because I’m not getting paid what I’m worth. I consider myself a contractor and unfortunately I have the TWU ineptly agreeing to substandard contracts. The company doesn’t pay me to care so I don’t. If they paid me to care, dam straight dependability would also increase.

I get sick and tired of the moronic talk of just quit and work somewhere else. That’s one of the reasons for the contract article for seniority. Seniority is at my age is nothing more than an anchor around my neck. I’m not going back to low man on the totem pole and throw away 25yrs.

I’m sorry, but you are so misguided if you think Bob’s dragging us down.

Do what you get paid to do, fix airplanes. I didn't say go above and beyond. If you choose to be a slacker, what can we do? You're the one that has to look at your kids and be their role model. When you talk to your neighbors don't tell them you're a union mechanic, you embarrass us all with your BS attitude. "OH I got 25 years" , 25 years of being overpaid I'm sure.

 

[Bob Owens]

I've worked with many guys who claim that "when the company pays me what I'm worth..." blah, blah, blah. The reality is that these guys aren't going to change their ways regardless of what they are paid. They are useless Deadwood.

The only time the mech. I mentioned in an separate post stayed awake was when we had a supervisor that wasn't afraid to keep an eye on him. Still that was all he was able to accomplish. The guy still didn't put forth an honest days work.

I believe it takes more than management to tell us to do our jobs. We must also hold ourselves accountable. Guys like the above drag our profession down and hold the rest of us back.

Thankfully I do see hope for our profession when reading some of the comments from Duke and others.

We must hold ourselves accountable, not others, thats managemnts job. If not then what is their purpose?

The only ones who are dragging the profession down are the ones who vote Yes on concessionary contracts.

If everyone was a heavy hitter this company would be just as stingy. Sure there are LOPS out there and they would probably be LOPS even if they were paid right but I still say thats managements fault. They hired them, they let them pass probation and they let them stay. Management has to build a case and if the guy is a LOP it isnt that hard to do.

Management loves having LOPS because the union by law has to give them representation, other wise they would be subject to a DFR lawsuit. This tarnishes the image of the union, wastes resources and weakens the union but legally there's nothing the union can do about it. One of my greatest fustrations is that 10% use up 90% of the Unions resources. When I ran for office I said that I would not allow the 10% to distract me from doing what I set out to do for the majority, the guys who show up and do their jobs and hope and pray that the union can help make their lives better.

If you are willing to give the same effort for $30 as you would for $40 then you are only worth $30. It would be foolish for them to pay you more. There is no such thing as fairness with this management, its just business and their whole strategy is keeping costs down, not making more money. If they pay you the least they feel they can get away with then its perfectly ethical for you to give them least that you can get away with giving them. Its called "Quid pro Quo". We should not give them $45/hr efforts for $35/hr just as you wont get a Caddilac XLR V for the price of a Chevy Cavalier.

Being a professional means you do it for money, if the money doesnt matter then you are an amateur, this is a job, not a hobby.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

The bottom line is, nobody is forcing you to work at AA, I'm sure can get a job making $35 an hour anywhere. Why work at a place you hate being at ? You can start your own flight check and pay your mechs $50 an hour, that will show AA how a real "professional" does it. Or you can sit back and complain about the union and the company.

Duke, nice post. Spoken like a true twu diehard hiding behind an alias while ignoring the real problem.

Let's see... sit back and complain about the union and the company? Can we change the way AA manages the place? No. Can we change the way the twu manages the membership? No.

Golly gee. I guess we should just be lucky to have a job.

Why work at a place we hate? Again, you miss the spot here. I don't hate AA. Rather AA/twu is doing everything they can to TRY and make me hate AA. But that will not happen. Why not leave as you suggest? Well, as long as I'm here at AA I will fight for my craft and profession in order to provide those following into this job pay and benefits equal to their responsibilities. You see, real union men and women don't think like you do. Besides, if those who complain about the company and twu did leave the only people left would be sheep.

Try standing up for your craft for once. That is, if you are even an A&P.

 

[DallasConehead]

h34r:

 

[iluvaa]

Hey Ken what planet do you live on BAHAA

 

[Vortilon]

I find it odd that all these newbies on this board are so concerned about who is doing the most work: Imjustsayin, paul1, interested, just the facts, and duke787. Your badmouthing of fellow employees on this open forum is accomplishing exactly what? I suspect you're all one in the same. Your posts seem to be contrived and self supporting - maybe a little too obvious.....

The crew chief; and for that matter, the rest of the crew should through peer pressure be able to change bad habits of certain employees.

I'm just observing....

 

[Bob Owens]

I find it odd that all these newbies on this board are so concerned about who is doing the most work: Imjustsayin, paul1, interested, just the facts, and duke787. Your badmouthing of fellow employees on this open forum is accomplishing exactly what? I suspect you're all one in the same. Your posts seem to be contrived and self supporting - maybe a little too obvious.....

The crew chief; and for that matter, the rest of the crew should through peer pressure be able to change bad habits of certain employees.

I'm just observing....

Well I think the point is that they really dont want people looking at the topic, that is is a Zero Cost contract, the company got exactly what they wanted, its as if we didnt even have negotiations. The company just waited two years while Don kept insisting that we "Take the high Road" and then dumped this POS out there to be voted on, along with a little unsigned leaflet telling everyone why they should vote yes while leaving out why they should vote no.

Leading up to the "meat and potatoes" Don kept saying that we should give the company what they wanted on all the other Articles and that we would get a dollar value for all those things and roll that into our economic articles. Of course that never happened, the company got everything they wanted in the language then they also got everything they wanted with the economic articles, they did this by dragging the committee to hotel rooms for three years while for the most part the company and International guys went home every night.

One of the things I asked was why was the union setting up pickets protesting Exec Bonuses and saying "the gloves are coming off" while at the same time publicly supporting anti-trust immunity for the BA, JAL deals, "working together" and every other corporate scheme to boost productivity that the company wanted. It didnt make sense, saying one thing but doing the opposite.

 

[Duke787]

The bottom line is, nobody is forcing you to work at AA, I'm sure can get a job making $35 an hour anywhere. Why work at a place you hate being at ? You can start your own flight check and pay your mechs $50 an hour, that will show AA how a real "professional" does it. Or you can sit back and complain about the union and the company.

Duke, nice post. Spoken like a true twu diehard hiding behind an alias while ignoring the real problem.

Let's see... sit back and complain about the union and the company? Can we change the way AA manages the place? No. Can we change the way the twu manages the membership? No.

Golly gee. I guess we should just be lucky to have a job.

Why work at a place we hate? Again, you miss the spot here. I don't hate AA. Rather AA/twu is doing everything they can to TRY and make me hate AA. But that will not happen. Why not leave as you suggest? Well, as long as I'm here at AA I will fight for my craft and profession in order to provide those following into this job pay and benefits equal to their responsibilities. You see, real union men and women don't think like you do. Besides, if those who complain about the company and twu did leave the only people left would be sheep.

Try standing up for your craft for once. That is, if you are even an A&P.

I don't believe complaing about everything is standing up for our craft. If you notice in posts I say you should do an honest days work. When I read these posts and guys are complaining about the same things over and over then they brag about how they sluff off, then they call themselves "professionals" I think that is dragging down the craft. If you have ever been to a steward seminar you would have learned that stewards are to be the model employee's, not the biggest piece of excrement. Be honest with yourself do you take seriuos what a known whiner says?

I'm sure the APA isn't telling it's union reps to go to work and sluff off, don't do the whole check list, don't give the pax a nice smooth ride, don't wear your uniform, land at the wrong airport. I'm sure the APFA does not tell it's reps to act unprofessional, don't serve the pax their meal if they get one, don't do your safety checks, don't help the pax in case of emergency, because you deserve more pay.
What I'm saying is to do your job, and let the union negotiators handle our contract, if they can't get it done, we get a union that will, but to sluff off and brag about it on a public forum is reprehensible, and for you and Bob to defend their right to sluff off makes us and unions look bad.