Weight restrictions on airbuses

[NevadaHP]

From the west point of view. The past two days in a row we have had to weight restrict las-phx flts on the a320.we never had this problem before either. The only times we had weight problems was in the summer when it was 100+ outside, and thats when balance comes into play as well and only on long hauls. i believe its coming from 2 places, dispatch gives the numbers to CLP well from what Im told only 18% of flts are actually planned by a human the rest are done by a computer. Which means the CLP agent or computer never askes dipatch for more MTOW and CLP just uses what DX gives them. so if they are carrying lots of hold fuel it probably could have been reduced an hour earlier if someone really cared but we are using computers to plan our flts for us at CLP. I have also been told that if its a balance issue they will just say weight restricted to solve the problem, instead properly balancing the aircrafts payload.
Not to mention that our cabin breakdowns have significantlly changed for A320, the west was 12/66/72, now its 12/54/84. The other amazing thing is now we load it tail heavy before it was load nose heavy.

 

[tadjr]

OK, Screw my question quota for the week. I just sent this to corporate and I'll post a reply when I get one.

I have seen and heard many discussions about weight and balance issues that never happened in the past. All of this seems to have happened since the West cut over to the CLP/old East way of flight planning. Never before have there been so many issues with W&B on short haul flights (ie BWI-CLT or DCA-LGA) where bags and/or customer are being left behind and major delays are occuring trying to get the situation resolved. What changed with the old East load planning system during the cutover that is creating so many problems systemwide and what is going to be done to correct it? We cant continue to have problems on so many flights since it affects our on time departure performance and baggage issues.
Thanks.

 

[YVINTERN]

crusher said on Dec 31 2007, 02:45 PM We had our issues prior to this merger , but at least we knew how to operate a professional airline.We had some of the most loyal passengers around but no more thanks to Tempe. Their choice to cater to the lowest common demoninator is destroyed any good will we might have still had.
===============================================================
Are kidding me Crusher? US Airways was about to close shop due to incompetence and was known by customers as THE WORST airline. Until Tempe came in and saved your airline through the merger, you would have had no job to whine about.

True, the merger has not gone well, but it is mostly due to using East procedures and systems because they were supposedly cheaper. Whoever sold management on that bit of goods did a great whitewash job. We essentially stepped back 2 decades technologically by using the East systems, and by doing so dragged HP down in the muck.

This is what happens when bean counters run an airline.

EXCUSE ME?

EXCUSE ME?

Did you just flipping say that the EAST had the substandard technology and equipment in place? SHARES is inferior compared to SABRE or US CARES...and I know SABRE myself and I've used SHARES during my internship at Mesa all I have to say is...

BITE ME!
(and welcome to USAV)

But your post is going to probably piss off folks east of the Mississippi River.

 

[Singleflyer]

Who does W & B for Republic's EMB 170 (old mid-atlantic)?

Because to day the MHT-DCA flight was weight restricted.

While NW EMB175 with close to a full load (I asked the gate agent) was not weight restricted and MHT-MSP is a lot further and require alot ore fuel

Just curious if this is related to the other US problems with W & B.

 

[AstroLounge]

East procedures like SABRE vs west procedures like QIK? Did you forget about last year? Are you in a coma?

Exactly! the East N-E-V-E-R had W/B issues like we do NOW. And even "IF" the system they chose was suppossedly cheaper/ less expensive to utilize (and did come from the East)- it is STILL the circUS Clowns that are running "The Greatest Show on Earth". And as if the W/B issues isn't a drama, that miserable RES system isn't much better than cave etchings from the Stone Age........and that says WEST, ALL Over it! (I have met many great people from the West since the merger and their candidness and enlightening remarks about Tempe and how they operate helps me get through every day I work, but in a Nutshell they have a helluva way to go before I would say I am the slightest impressed).

 

[soc-hpjester]

Piney -- Why CLP dosen't work anymore is a mystery. Maybe it can't handle the increased number of aircraft and new cities, who knows. But I do know that having w/b in each station worked alot better and more accurate. And you didn't have to move pax to the back of an empty airplane.

 

[tadjr]

Exactly! the East N-E-V-E-R had W/B issues like we do NOW.

Response to my question asked at corporate communications. Appearantly there shouldnt be an increase in weight restricted flights. Send them those flight numbers and dates so they can figure out whats wrong.

To my knowledge, there have been no system changes that would cause an increase of weight restricted flights. Can you provide any specific flight/date examples? Mike XXXXX is our Director of Operations Engineering. If you can provide him with specific examples, his team could investigate further.

 

[scot]

ONCE AGAIN, this thread is NOT about who bought whom, personal attacks or anything other than weight restrictions. LAST WARNING

 

[USstew23]

Piney -- Why CLP dosen't work anymore is a mystery. Maybe it can't handle the increased number of aircraft and new cities, who knows. But I do know that having w/b in each station worked alot better and more accurate. And you didn't have to move pax to the back of an empty airplane.

That would seem to make sense but at one point there were something like 400 aircraft in the US fleet and just as many if not more cities than there are now (back when there were F28's, F100's, DC-9's, 732's, etc.) with mainline service (TYS, LEX, CHA, ROA, GSP, CAE, OAJ, etc.). I wish what you suspect was the case but it's something else.

 

[JMM]

Can someone please, just answer the question about the weight and balance issues without bringing the east/west garbage into it? I went to nonrev home the other day (PHX-SAN) and was told I could not get on because it was weight restricted. WTF, it was an A319 they have a range of over 3000 miles, right? PHX-SAN is like 400 miles tops. I questioned the gate agent who just repeated "you cannot jumpseat the flight is weight restricted." Finally just went down and asked the captain if I could please get onboard so I could go home. He let me on, but still, WTF? Can someone just provide a factual, nonemotional, non-east/west garbage answer, please? I just want to understand how a plane with such LONG legs can be restricted on such a SHORT flight.

 

[WCT]

From the west point of view. The past two days in a row we have had to weight restrict las-phx flts on the a320.we never had this problem before either. The only times we had weight problems was in the summer when it was 100+ outside, and thats when balance comes into play as well and only on long hauls. i believe its coming from 2 places, dispatch gives the numbers to CLP well from what Im told only 18% of flts are actually planned by a human the rest are done by a computer. Which means the CLP agent or computer never askes dipatch for more MTOW and CLP just uses what DX gives them. so if they are carrying lots of hold fuel it probably could have been reduced an hour earlier if someone really cared but we are using computers to plan our flts for us at CLP. I have also been told that if its a balance issue they will just say weight restricted to solve the problem, instead properly balancing the aircrafts payload.
Not to mention that our cabin breakdowns have significantlly changed for A320, the west was 12/66/72, now its 12/54/84. The other amazing thing is now we load it tail heavy before it was load nose heavy.

You are spot on, thanks for the post!

 

[john john]

Can someone just provide a factual, nonemotional, non-east/west garbage answer, please? I just want to understand how a plane with such LONG legs can be restricted on such a SHORT flight.

My GUESS Fuel load and working knowledge of alternates/burn offs/route/child counts/flaps and CLP covering their butt, so they restrict the flight so the flight does not leave the gate overweight and possibly the west aircraft SOW is more.As far as the a/c being out of balance I thing Boeing and Airbus are very forgiving in this. I thing the program is designed to give the optima fuel efficiency I’m just an arm seat quarterback and when you question CLP and dispatch they get very upset. not sure what is going on in the OCC department

 

[FlatLater]

My GUESS Fuel load and working knowledge of alternates/burn offs/route/child counts/flaps and CLP covering their butt, so they restrict the flight so the flight does not leave the gate overweight and possibly the west aircraft SOW is more.As far as the a/c being out of balance I thing Boeing and Airbus are very forgiving in this. I thing the program is designed to give the optima fuel efficiency I’m just an arm seat quarterback and when you question CLP and dispatch they get very upset. not sure what is going on in the OCC department

This is all very confusing and convoluted. The OCC and CLP are using former East systems and are managed by East managers, so am not sure why these problems are popping up now, especially if they did not occur in the East prior to the merger.

The best way to solve these problems is to have a system quantify the problems and report them to the folks who best know how to analyze the issues. Simply complaining about a situation without providing specifics will not solve the problem.

Getting into an East vs West, or calling the executives names does no good, and instead only inflames a bad situation.

 

[tadjr]

The best way to solve these problems is to have a system quantify the problems and report them to the folks who best know how to analyze the issues. Simply complaining about a situation without providing specifics will not solve the problem.

This is why I have asked for specific flight numbers/dates if possible. I received an answer from corporate that includes ccs up to 6 people inculding a VP. I need examples now to send them so if you have flights that are weight restricted or have to move people, please send me a PM with the flight/date asap so I can forward it to them. They do not think there is a major problem from the info I received and I need specifics so they can check them out.

 

[terib]

We have had weight restrictions on flt 281 EWR-PHX almost everyday. One day it tame back to the gate and we had to remove 13 people. I don't have specific dates. This pacticular flight is a problem most days. Hope someone can figure this out.
I also contacted corp communications and CLP doesn't seem to see any problem. They want specifics so they can check into it.