Weight Restrictions out of TLV

[TWAnr]

I tried non-revving out of Tel Aviv a few days ago and was denied boarding due to weight restrictions. The flight left with nine empty seats and no standby passengers on board. According to Airbus, the A330-200 has a range of approximately 7,000. Why the weight restrictions?

 

[Phoenix]

I tried non-revving out of Tel Aviv a few days ago and was denied boarding due to weight restrictions. The flight left with nine empty seats and no standby passengers on board. According to Airbus, the A330-200 has a range of approximately 7,000. Why the weight restrictions?

 
 
Nobody likes to see empty seats with non-revs stuck.  Perhaps revenue cargo was filling up any excess weight capacity, and offsetting any opportunity for more passengers.  

 

[Harry Callahan]

Without knowing more what Phoenix stated.
 
Harry

 

[TWAnr]

 
 
Nobody likes to see empty seats with non-revs stuck.  Perhaps revenue cargo was filling up any excess weight capacity, and offsetting any opportunity for more passengers.  

 
The advertised range for this equipment type is more than 7,000 miles. The distance between TLV and PHL is approximately 5,800 miles. That leaves a comfortable margin that should allow for a full load of both passengers and cargo. Delta and United, who fly 777's to TLV, don't seem to have a problem with weight restrictions, nor does El Al.
 
There were no adverse weather conditions or headwinds that night. I know that because we ended up buying ZED tickets to Europe and non-revved to the US from there. We departed TLV only a few hours later than originally planned and both of our flights arrived early at their destinations.
 
The supervisor in TLV claimed that weight restrictions are very common for this flight. She was unpleasant and almost took delight at the fact that the standbys were denied boarding. When she rolled the names over to the next night, she refused to answer a question about the booking level for that flight. For us, it was worth buying ZED tickets rather than risk paying for additional hotel nights in Israel.
 
Having followed the standby lists on the mobile site of US Airways for the last several days, it would appear that very few non-revs have gotten on and many names appear to be repeated from night to night. Oh, well, no more non-revving from TLV on US for us until they upgrade the equipment type.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Winds aloft and weather conditions in PHL and possible alternates have a great effect on westbound flights out of TLV.  Just because the manufacturer advertised a range for an aircraft, does not mean it will always work just because the Great Circle route between two cities is under that figure.
 
If the airplane can hold the fuel to make the flight happen without a fuel stop, the fuel will be boarded first right up to the top of the tanks (I have seen that out of TLV on more than one occasion.)  After that, revenue passengers/bags are boarded, and it there is any useful load still available, then revenue cargo comes next.  Once an A330-200 has topped off its tanks, it does not leave near as much useful load as a B777 does with fuel loads for an equal distance trip.

 

[TWAnr]

Thanks.

 

[Jester]

Silly and maybe an obvious question here... if the flight goes out with say... 50 open seats, could it be weight restricted still?  I understand there might be a mountain of cargo, but how likely would still be weight restricted?

 

[sand2snow]

This flight has a huge amount of cargo coming out of TLV and will usually push at max weight..

 

[fr8tmastr]

who fly 777's to TLV, don't seem to have a problem with weight restrictions, nor does El Al
 
.

This is the Answer to the question, 777 vs 330

 

[nycbusdriver]

This is the Answer to the question, 777 vs 330

 
It's not quite an apples vs. oranges argument, but a 777 and 330 are far different airplanes with significantly different capabilities.  You can't stuff 10 pounds of mud into a 5 pound sack, but if all you normally need to do is carry 5 pounds of mud, it would be an inefficient use of resources to consistently use a 10 pound sack.  
 
The 330 fairly well serves the TLV-PHL market in getting revenue hauled.  If revenue gets consistently left behind (more likley in winter) then it is time to schedule the "10 pound sack" on the route.
 
That being said, AA is in business to haul revenue, not employees, their families nor their friends.  While unfortunate, leaving non-revs at the gate in TLV does not, and should not, give the company one bit of regret, nor any incentive to fly a 777 on the route.

 

[fr8tmastr]

 
That being said, AA is in business to haul revenue, not employees, their families nor their friends.  While unfortunate, leaving non-revs at the gate in TLV does not, and should not, give the company one bit of regret, nor any incentive to fly a 777 on the route.

I agree with you that the company is not in the business to carry non revs, however the problem remains...  What if they non revs were paying passengers instead?  One plane can do it, the other can't.  Unless of course this rarely happens and we are usually carrying empty seats, then the 330 fits the bill.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I agree with you that the company is not in the business to carry non revs, however the problem remains...  What if they non revs were paying passengers instead?  One plane can do it, the other can't.  Unless of course this rarely happens and we are usually carrying empty seats, then the 330 fits the bill.

 
If they were paying passengers, they would likely give the useful load to them before the cargo.  I have seen that done, and while the problem (more prevalent in winter when the headwinds going to PHL are much stronger and the weather on the east coast is worse) is not an everyday occurrence, there have been times that non-revs sit for days trying to get out of TLV.
 
The 330 does indeed fit the bill, because it makes money (lots) on the route every time it flies.  But the limitations of the 330 cause the company to leave profit on the table, and inconvenience the lucrative shippers fairly regularly in winter.  (Not rarely.)  I suspect a huge portion of that profit is made in the cargo hold, and shippers whose goods are left on the ramp may look elsewhere for a more reliable way to move ALL of their goods.