What is going on with AA MD-80 Fuel Tank Covers?

[James T. Kirk]

All the usual suspects are attacking Bill in the
usual nasty way, but it seems to me he is right in everything he said. The IAM did hold on to some heavy checks. AMFA's first contract with UAL state that
"...effective with ratification of the Agreement,
the three C check lines currently performed byCompany
employees in house at the San Francisco Maintenance
Center will not be outsourced..." There is similar
language in the 2003 IAM/UAL agreement. However, the
IAM held on to all its restrictions against overseas
maintenance which AMFA then gave up for its biggest
aircraft. Bill said that ASA lost heavy overhaul(among other things) under AMFA's agreement and he is
right. They even apologized to their members for it.
Mesaba had a heavy overhaul base (I think in Ohio) which
was closed four years after they negotiated their
contract with AMFA. And no-one wants to talk about
NWA. But, all of this is besides the point. This whole string was started by people seeking to blame the TWU for the problems with tank covers. As Bill said, though,
the manufacture of tank covers was work we brought
back inhouse, and we ran into problems because good
mechanics tried to do better than the minimum the
manual required, something which the manual seemed to
allow. I have been dealing with the issue for the
last three days and I know this to be true.
Unlike a number of posters I want to see us keep our
work and succeed. Lets work safe and work careful
and we'll succeed.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Tiberius,

"Unlike a number of posters I want to see us keep our
work and succeed. Lets work safe and work careful
and we'll succeed."

You truly are an ass. Who on this board ever stated that they do not want work to stay with us? Come on, let go of Mr. Spock and answer, with proof, where an AA AMT wants work to go outside, either on the Line or Overhaul. Just beam the answer on down.

As for being safe and careful we have always done that. But thanks for the encouragement. However, doing just that will not gaurantee our success. You also need high morale.

 

[Birdman]

It was reported in Cribnotes (Issue # 21) that approximately $1,800,000 could be save by years end on the inhouse manufacturing of these tank plates. While it's a shame this incident occured, the 1.8 mil should go a long way in offsetting the loss, or perhaps a reciprocal formula can be applied to the creative accounting methods that are used to bolster the $500 million breakthrough goals. We could possibly still make money on this debacle.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

All the usual suspects are attacking Bill in the
usual nasty way, but it seems to me he is right in everything he said. The IAM did hold on to some heavy checks. AMFA's first contract with UAL state that
"...effective with ratification of the Agreement,
the three C check lines currently performed byCompany
employees in house at the San Francisco Maintenance
Center will not be outsourced..." There is similar
language in the 2003 IAM/UAL agreement. However, the
IAM held on to all its restrictions against overseas
maintenance which AMFA then gave up for its biggest
aircraft.

Bill is right in everything he said???

Not when it comes to UAL he's not.

There is no similar language in the 2003 iam agreement for C-chks, that protection was negotiated by AMFA, the iam didn't have it.

The iam didn't hold on to A-N-Y heavy checks at UAL, again they gave it away in 2003.

As for restricting of overseas maintenance,the work had A-L-R-E-A-D-Y been given away by the iam, would you be willing to take a paycut just to ensure 2 lines of heavy visits stayed OUTSOURCED IN THE USA as opposed to outsourced overseas?

 

[TWU informer]

Did anybody notice that there were some Tank Cover Plates that had paint problems?

This thread has been Hi-Jacked and no longer on topic.

 

[upsilon]

Did anybody notice that there were some Tank Cover Plates that had paint problems? This thread has been Hi-Jacked and no longer on topic.

Back OT, earlier this afternoon Holly Hegeman posed on her Buzz site for PB subscribers that she understood that AA had grounded 54 MD80s on Friday. She has since posted that all but 10 or 11 are now back in service.

I understand that (as a previous OT poster noted) the problems were handled at the line stations where the planes had to be parked. Anybody here know otherwise?

 

[AMFAMAN]

Did anybody notice that there were some Tank Cover Plates that had paint problems?

This thread has been Hi-Jacked and no longer on topic.

The thread was hi-jacked because many of us were not buying into the twu/company spin on the problem. According to them, I am now led to believe that the mechanics did too good of a job and therefore the paint did not adhere. I don't buy into experienced mechanics not knowing the basics of painting, and with word of a management termination over this fiasco, it speaks volumes to the Informers story as the truth.

I'm sure Billy J[ack*ss] will come back with something about Ozark, Republic, etc, etc, etc, as he has the orders to keep spinning the story.

Back OT, earlier this afternoon Holly Hegeman posed on her Buzz site for PB subscribers that she understood that AA had grounded 54 MD80s on Friday. She has since posted that all but 10 or 11 are now back in service.

I understand that (as a previous OT poster noted) the problems were handled at the line stations where the planes had to be parked. Anybody here know otherwise?

The numbers she is posting are about right. As far as the planes, the ones that were being worked on and subsequently discovered the problem are still being worked on st line stations. A whole bunch were checked out at the line and then ferried to Tulsa to be worked there. I am told the Pulse line and galley mod line is suspended as far as incoming planes until this problem is resolved.

 

[TWU informer]

Trying to cover two Supervisor asses by claiming machined finish was too smooth is typical mis-information.

So are the stooges now in denial about media blast not being accomplished on these plates?

Everyone in the areas that work these are claiming the blast process removal is the case.

So the workers doing the work are claiming one thing, and leaders are claiming another.....hmmm, what or whom to believe?

I was told effected numbers were 33 Aircraft and 15 contaminated engines.

 

[eolesen]

Did anybody notice that there were some Tank Cover Plates that had paint problems?

This thread has been Hi-Jacked and no longer on topic.

Shocking that a thread would be hijacked 'round here...


Perhaps the crisis is over...

The numbers on PlaneBuzz.Com were just verified by someone I know in DFW (using the RGO*ALL entry in DECS).

Now the fingerpointing may begin.

Oh yeah, that's already been happening amidst all the ad hominum attacks...

 

[Bill]

The thread was hi-jacked because many of us were not buying into the twu/company spin on the problem. According to them, I am now led to believe that the mechanics did too good of a job and therefore the paint did not adhere. I don't buy into experienced mechanics not knowing the basics of painting, and with word of a management termination over this fiasco, it speaks volumes to the Informers story as the truth.

So do tell us amfaman (from afar) what is the real story??? You seem to know so much. Please enlighten us!

 

[AMFAMAN]

So do tell us amfaman (from afar) what is the real story??? You seem to know so much. Please enlighten us!

The story has been posted several times already by the Informer, no need to post it again.

BTW...it is not considered "afar" when you actually work on the subject planes. "Afar" would be more appropiate for someone totally out of the loop like you, considering afterall you work at the Rock which has not seen any of these planes to date.

 

[TWU informer]

The story has been posted several times already by the Informer, no need to post it again.

BTW...it is not considered "afar" when you actually work on the subject planes. "Afar" would be more appropiate for someone totally out of the loop like you, considering afterall you work at the Rock which has not seen any of these planes to date.

Bill hasn't worked on a plane for years. Regardless of location.

 

[High Speed Steel]

Bill is right in everything he said???

Not when it comes to UAL he's not.

There is no similar language in the 2003 iam agreement for C-chks, that protection was negotiated by AMFA, the iam didn't have it.

The iam didn't hold on to A-N-Y heavy checks at UAL, again they gave it away in 2003.

As for restricting of overseas maintenance,the work had A-L-R-E-A-D-Y been given away by the iam, would you be willing to take a paycut just to ensure 2 lines of heavy visits stayed OUTSOURCED IN THE USA as opposed to outsourced overseas?

Third Seat, I have something that has come to mind that was part of the UAL agreement with the amfa. It was noted upon ratification of the agreement that there was an open window of 60 days to "tweak the language" after ratification. With this window it could be assumed that the contract was still open for change. If the outsourcing was the fault of the IAM as you suggest then why didn't the amfa fix it? Apparently the amfa was in agreement with the levels of outsourcing proposed because as the way I see it they had two missed opportunities to save face with the issue here at UAL.

As the old saying goes..."If you sign it, you own it".

 

[AMFAMAN]

Third Seat, I have something that has come to mind that was part of the UAL agreement with the amfa. It was noted upon ratification of the agreement that there was an open window of 60 days to "tweak the language" after ratification. With this window it could be assumed that the contract was still open for change. If the outsourcing was the fault of the IAM as you suggest then why didn't the amfa fix it? Apparently the amfa was in agreement with the levels of outsourcing proposed because as the way I see it they had two missed opportunities to save face with the issue here at UAL.

As the old saying goes..."If you sign it, you own it".

As predicted, once the truth gets out about the tank covers, quick change the topic to something anti-AMFA.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ---- Those numbers Holly put out are the same as I heard. We had two MD80's here at MCI with considerable contamination! I also heard at least forty flights were canceled because of this. But I really can't confirm that.