What will happen if..

[Fly4Free]

What will happen if the pilots can't come to an agreement on their contract? Will they stop flying.. and will US Airways not be able to do the one thing that keeps us in business.. fly?

 

[safety stud]

What will happen if the pilots can't come to an agreement on their contract? Will they stop flying.. and will US Airways not be able to do the one thing that keeps us in business.. fly?

Keep up with the posts. The company can run AWA/U seperate. They just can't operate under one certificate. The seniority integration is based on a joint contract by both parties. This is where the problem lies.

Until both parties come to the table to negotiate, and agree on a contract, the seniority list is a moot point.
The East wont sign on to anything as it stands.

Now you are up to date...

 

[BoeingBoy]

They just can't operate under one certificate.

I hope you meant that they couldn't combine the pilot groups, because they most certainly can operate under one certificate. Maybe you were one of those pilots who thought MDA/MAA was just a subcontractor like Mesa, because US operated them on the same certificate as mainline but with separate contracts.

Jim

 

[N924PS]

Keep up with the posts. The company can run AWA/U seperate. They just can't operate under one certificate. The seniority integration is based on a joint contract by both parties. This is where the problem lies.

Until both parties come to the table to negotiate, and agree on a contract, the seniority list is a moot point.
The East wont sign on to anything as it stands.

Now you are up to date...

In my opinion, this is just what Doug and company are delighted to accept.

They really don't intend to have joint operations anyway in order to realize the financial gains from the East Pilot's LOA93 Contact, amendable in 2009. Now they can blame it on the East Pilot's refusal to agree on a joint contact while again, they laugh all the way to the bank. Brilliant!

 

[twoturnin]

laugh all the way to the bank and put all the new flying on the EAST's side---the new profit center for the company-----ooops

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

I hope you meant that they couldn't combine the pilot groups, because they most certainly can operate under one certificate. Maybe you were one of those pilots who thought MDA/MAA was just a subcontractor like Mesa, because US operated them on the same certificate as mainline but with separate contracts.

Jim

He doesn't seem to know what he is talking about Jim so I just ingnore him and he wants to incite.

 

[BoeingBoy]

laugh all the way to the bank and put all the new flying on the EAST's side---the new profit center for the company-----ooops

Just not necessarily flown by the East pilots - read your transition agreement before getting too giddy.

Jim

 

[USCREW]

Is it true that the company can impose the East contract? I thought that was what Doug and Scott have said several times in the crew meetings.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Is it true that the company can impose the East contract? I thought that was what Doug and Scott have said several times in the crew meetings.

They said it - that's true. Whether it was just a threat or they can really do it is a different question and I don't know the answer.

Jim

 

[Junebug172]

Keep up with the posts. The company can run AWA/U seperate. They just can't operate under one certificate. The seniority integration is based on a joint contract by both parties. This is where the problem lies.

Until both parties come to the table to negotiate, and agree on a contract, the seniority list is a moot point.
The East wont sign on to anything as it stands.

Now you are up to date...

No, its NOT a moot point. The clock has already started on that list. A CBA is inevitable and soon as its signed, vacancies will be open to all pilots on that list.

So, as an example, let's say you were able to upgrade while working under your old CBA and quickly get a line after that. Once we went to Nicolau's list, and vacancy on your aircraft would go to all those west pilots that didn't have a chance to bid on it. They would then assume their rightful position above you and more than likely push you back down into reserve.

Yes, you'd stay a Captain because of the "no bump", but you'd be a reserve Captain for a long time.

So, unless you're willing to stay under LOA 93 for a very long time, you guys will vote in that new CBA. Those guys with less than 10 years are going to vote it in for QoL improvements as well as for the pay. They need to make up some money for that lost pension.

Now you are up to date as well.

 

[Bud8EE]

No, its NOT a moot point. The clock has already started on that list. A CBA is inevitable and soon as its signed, vacancies will be open to all pilots on that list.

So, as an example, let's say you were able to upgrade while working under your old CBA and quickly get a line after that. Once we went to Nicolau's list, and vacancy on your aircraft would go to all those west pilots that didn't have a chance to bid on it. They would then assume their rightful position above you and more than likely push you back down into reserve.

Yes, you'd stay a Captain because of the "no bump", but you'd be a reserve Captain for a long time.

So, unless you're willing to stay under LOA 93 for a very long time, you guys will vote in that new CBA. Those guys with less than 10 years are going to vote it in for QoL improvements as well as for the pay. They need to make up some money for that lost pension.

Now you are up to date as well.

Going from FO to CO is about a 35% raise, more if you advance to higher paying equipment. Captain's looking at advancing to larger aircraft also receive a pay bump. QOL as you say also improves when holding a line vs reserve. A joint contract would have to offer above and beyond 35% and serious reserve improvements and a whole bunch of other things for the large majority to allow the single seniority list to be used. Only a unified group would get that and this award just eliminated that possibility.

 

[BoeingBoy]

So, as an example, let's say you were able to upgrade while working under your old CBA and quickly get a line after that. Once we went to Nicolau's list, and vacancy on your aircraft would go to all those west pilots that didn't have a chance to bid on it. They would then assume their rightful position above you and more than likely push you back down into reserve.

Not quite right, and that's the beauty of the award. That probably won't happen any more than it already does during the East bidding process (don't know what a combined contract will contain so can't make a definitive forecast).

Sure, there'll be some West pilots that'll bid East vacancies but there'll be East pilots who'll bid West vacancies. But if anything, the effect will probably be worse on the West folks just because of the numbers - there's probably more East pilots who'll bid out west than vice versa because of the greater number of East pilots and the ex-PSA folks.

One thing you Westies haven't experienced is the effect of having multiple bases. A mid-level blockholder in LGA would be a mid/low level reserve in CLT and might not be able to hold PIT. People "on the bubble" (bottom blockholders) risk getting pushed back to reserve every bid back here.

Jim

 

[safety stud]

I hope you meant that they couldn't combine the pilot groups, because they most certainly can operate under one certificate. Maybe you were one of those pilots who thought MDA/MAA was just a subcontractor like Mesa, because US operated them on the same certificate as mainline but with separate contracts.

Jim

Yes or No, Jim

Can an east coast pilot fly a west coast aircraft without the tail number being under one certificate?

 

[Junebug172]

Not quite right, and that's the beauty of the award. That probably won't happen any more than it already does during the East bidding process (don't know what a combined contract will contain so can't make a definitive forecast).

Sure, there'll be some West pilots that'll bid East vacancies but there'll be East pilots who'll bid West vacancies. But if anything, the effect will probably be worse on the West folks just because of the numbers - there's probably more East pilots who'll bid out west than vice versa because of the greater number of East pilots and the ex-PSA folks.

One thing you Westies haven't experienced is the effect of having multiple bases. A mid-level blockholder in LGA would be a mid/low level reserve in CLT and might not be able to hold PIT. People "on the bubble" (bottom blockholders) risk getting pushed back to reserve every bid back here.

Jim

I refer you to the "as an example" part.

 

[Rico]

I hope you meant that they couldn't combine the pilot groups, because they most certainly can operate under one certificate. Maybe you were one of those pilots who thought MDA/MAA was just a subcontractor like Mesa, because US operated them on the same certificate as mainline but with separate contracts.

Jim

You are wrong Jim.

There was no "separate contract" for the "Midatlantic" operation.

The authority to operate "MDA" came from, and was soley governed by the AAA contract, under a LOA. There was no separate pilot group, rather all the pilots at US Airways Mainline and Midatlantic were AAA pilots (much like with the Metrojet situation)

They went through the process of negotiating a separate contract, but they never completed an actual CBA.

FYI, You can operate multiple certificates with one pilot group (ie: CHQ/REP/SHA), or you can have multiple pilot groups operating separate certificates under one corporation (ie: PDT/PSA/HP/US or DAL/COM). Both situations exist in today's industry...