What will happen if..

[safety stud]

He doesn't seem to know what he is talking about Jim so I just ingnore him and he wants to incite.

I know enough to know you are full of yourself Tuna Boy...

 

[Rico]

No, its NOT a moot point. The clock has already started on that list. A CBA is inevitable and soon as its signed, vacancies will be open to all pilots on that list.

So, as an example, let's say you were able to upgrade while working under your old CBA and quickly get a line after that. Once we went to Nicolau's list, and vacancy on your aircraft would go to all those west pilots that didn't have a chance to bid on it. They would then assume their rightful position above you and more than likely push you back down into reserve.

Yes, you'd stay a Captain because of the "no bump", but you'd be a reserve Captain for a long time.

So, unless you're willing to stay under LOA 93 for a very long time, you guys will vote in that new CBA. Those guys with less than 10 years are going to vote it in for QoL improvements as well as for the pay. They need to make up some money for that lost pension.

Now you are up to date as well.

That sounds real neat.

Say, would you mind posting where exactly this "clock" that you speak of is listed...? And after that, please go into a little more detail about how this new CBA is supposedly going to just "be signed".

Just curious.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Yes or No, Jim

Can an east coast pilot fly a west coast aircraft without the tail number being under one certificate?

A different, and somewhat irrevalent question since you said "They just can't operate under one certificate" which the company can and apparently will do. The tail numbers will be under one certificate - meaning the crews can be cross-utilized as far as the FAA is concerned - apparently well before there's a combined contract.

Even the combined contract is moot as far as the FAA is concerned - they could care less if the captain and f/o are under the same contract or not.

The transition agreement, as long as it's in effect, determines who can fly what airplanes until there's a combined contract (or more technically, an integration of the pilot groups) as long as a single certificate is acquired first.

But to answer your question - no, a pilot from one side can't fly an airplane from the other side until there's a single certificate. But again, it looks like the single certificate will be achieved well before a single contract even without any pilot-induced delays. So the single certificate requirement for cross-utilizing crews is moot as long as the transition agreement is in force.

Jim

 

[Callsign_Cactus]

You are absolutely 100% correct, Jim. The 'West' will join the 'East' certificate this summer and at that point any aircraft added to the 'East' certificate can and will be placed in the 'West' operation. In fact, after certificate merge you will immediately see West metal flying 'East' routes through PHL, CLT, etc. This is not, and I repeat, not tied to any joint contract. let the wipsawing begin.

If you don't believe me just ask your Fleet Captain.

A different, and somewhat irrevalent question since you said "They just can't operate under one certificate" which the company can and apparently will do. The tail numbers will be under one certificate - meaning the crews can be cross-utilized as far as the FAA is concerned - apparently well before there's a combined contract.

Even the combined contract is moot as far as the FAA is concerned - they could care less if the captain and f/o are under the same contract or not.

The transition agreement, as long as it's in effect, determines who can fly what airplanes until there's a combined contract (or more technically, an integration of the pilot groups) as long as a single certificate is acquired first.

But to answer your question - no, a pilot from one side can't fly an airplane from the other side until there's a single certificate. But again, it looks like the single certificate will be achieved well before a single contract even without any pilot-induced delays. So the single certificate requirement for cross-utilizing crews is moot as long as the transition agreement is in force.

Jim

 

[N924PS]

You are absolutely 100% correct, Jim. The 'West' will join the 'East' certificate this summer and at that point any aircraft added to the 'East' certificate can and will be placed in the 'West' operation. In fact, after certificate merge you will immediately see West metal flying 'East' routes through PHL, CLT, etc. This is not, and I repeat, not tied to any joint contract. let the wipsawing begin.

If you don't believe me just ask your Fleet Captain.

Won't the opposite be true as well? Seeing East Metal at BUR-SNA-ONT-SMF-SJC-SLC-PDX etc. will be just fine with this old PSA'er!

 

[Pi brat]

A different, and somewhat irrevalent question since you said "They just can't operate under one certificate" which the company can and apparently will do. The tail numbers will be under one certificate - meaning the crews can be cross-utilized as far as the FAA is concerned - apparently well before there's a combined contract.

Even the combined contract is moot as far as the FAA is concerned - they could care less if the captain and f/o are under the same contract or not.

The transition agreement, as long as it's in effect, determines who can fly what airplanes until there's a combined contract (or more technically, an integration of the pilot groups) as long as a single certificate is acquired first.

But to answer your question - no, a pilot from one side can't fly an airplane from the other side until there's a single certificate. But again, it looks like the single certificate will be achieved well before a single contract even without any pilot-induced delays. So the single certificate requirement for cross-utilizing crews is moot as long as the transition agreement is in force.

Jim

Jim this a small issue, but one that i think is of great importance. You said they "could care less". Shouldn't it be "they couldn't care less", because if they could less, they actually care some? 😀

BTW I was looking through my old logbook the other day, I flew F/E for you on a test flight from INT in 1986. Wow, time flies, take care.

 

[Callsign_Cactus]

Yes, I am sure that will be the case too.

One reason I am not too fond of the award - no fence around PHX, and that means you ex PSA'ers' probably moving westward taking my upgrade. I have estimated I will have lost at least 4 years of captain pay because of this mess we find ourselves in. An FO in the East that was as close to upgrade as I was has probably already upgraded and those that have not, well, join the club.

Won't the opposite be true as well? Seeing East Metal at BUR-SNA-ONT-SMF-SJC-SLC-PDX etc. will be just fine with this old PSA'er!

 

[BoeingBoy]

Jim this a small issue, but one that i think is of great importance. You said they "could care less". Shouldn't it be "they couldn't care less", because if they could less, they actually care some? 😀

You are correct and if my old English teacher were here she'd smack my knuckles with a ruler.....

Jim

 

[USA320Pilot]

In regard to whip sawing, would the company be more inclined to provide more flying to the lower or higher cost pilot contract?

Former US Airways MEC Chairman Bill Pollock said, The (Arbitratos) decision "could be the straw the breaks the camel's back" if the national Air Line Pilots Association lets the ruling stand. "Our national union must see that this is corrected before permanent damage is done. ? When you have nothing left to lose, you entertain extreme actions, one of them being kicking (the Air Line Pilots Association) off of the US Airways property."

"The contract is no longer our main focus," said Mr. Gentile, the pilots spokesman. "We are just too busy right now to deal with that." "All avenues," he said, are being considered.

See Story

USA320Pilot comments: If the US Airways pilots kick ALPA off of the property as former MEC chairman Bill Pollock indicates then this would set a whole set of actions into motion, such as a representational election to see if ALPA or another union represents the America West pilots, and from the sentiment of the US Airways pilots, imposition would occur to the America West pilots. Something for the West pilots to think about. When would now be a good time to think about this?

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[BoeingBoy]

In regard to whip sawing, would the company be more inclined to provide more flying to the lower or higher cost pilot contract?

Neither - it'd probably go the the lower cost pilot group. A very important difference.....

Jim

 

[USA320Pilot]

BoeingBoy,

I stand corrected.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[BoeingBoy]

Thank you. I've just seen several people post the same thought, and the distinction between a lower cost contract (which presumably the East has if Parker/Kirby are to be believed) and lower pilot costs is important. Doing something rash in hope of an outcome based on the mistaken belief that the two are interchangeable isn't especially smart.

Jim

 

[b737fo]

In regard to whip sawing, would the company be more inclined to provide more flying to the lower or higher cost pilot contract?

Former US Airways MEC Chairman Bill Pollock said, The (Arbitratos) decision "could be the straw the breaks the camel's back" if the national Air Line Pilots Association lets the ruling stand. "Our national union must see that this is corrected before permanent damage is done. ? When you have nothing left to lose, you entertain extreme actions, one of them being kicking (the Air Line Pilots Association) off of the US Airways property."

"The contract is no longer our main focus," said Mr. Gentile, the pilots spokesman. "We are just too busy right now to deal with that." "All avenues," he said, are being considered.

See Story

USA320Pilot comments: If the US Airways pilots kick ALPA off of the property as former MEC chairman Bill Pollock indicates then this would set a whole set of actions into motion, such as a representational election to see if ALPA or another union represents the America West pilots, and from the sentiment of the US Airways pilots, imposition would occur to the America West pilots. Something for the West pilots to think about. When would now be a good time to think about this?

Regards,

USA320Pilot

The threat from some of the East of taking my union from me and imposing one that they choose makes me sick. It also gives me the resolve to never sit across the negiotiating table with a group who would advocate such actions. So when would now be a good time to think of that?

 

[Pi brat]

BoeingBoy,

I stand corrected.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Can I ask you a question? Why do you post this stuff on here. You're not going to convince the West guys of anything and in the end you're just pissing them off even more. Do what you think you need to do, but keep it between our pilot group. Fanning the flames will not help.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Can I ask you a question? Why do you post this stuff on here. You're not going to convince the West guys of anything and in the end you're just pissing them off even more. Do what you think you need to do, but keep it between our pilot group. Fanning the flames will not help.

The West isn't pissed about anything.