What happens if it's a "No" vote?

necigrad

Veteran
Aug 21, 2007
1,110
310
Been reading for a while and finally decided to register, and I'm asking what I think is the biggest question that should have been asked that hasn't. If the 141 vote is a "No", what happens? I've asked several people on the ramp, and he's some of the answers:

"We renegotiate. They need us to transition."
"Section 6 negotiations start on the West contract."
"We roll into the current USAir CBA with no changes."
"I dunno."

And that last one is the most honest. What DOES happen? Everyone has their own ideas, and most, even though the ideas themselves vary, can all be based on logical thinking. So, here's the deal. I want to know what happens if the vote is "No". I encourage ANYONE to answer, be it a ramper, IAM, US Airways, somewhere else, where ever. But there are two rules. The first is that you must provide the facts that say so. And second, the source of the facts must be provided as well.

I ask this because I can't get a straight answer consistantly, and have NEVER heard anyone say "Well (insert scenario here) will happen, and here's why. If you look at (insert source) you will find that it specifies (insert result) will happen."

Everyone single person has their own agenda. That doesn't mean that they're corrupt or dishonest. What it DOES mean is that two people may see things in their own viewpoint. We're all human, and that's a quality of humanity. We see what we want. And that's why I want the facts to support it. Actually that's not the only reason. The other reason is that I don't trust anyone. I know the company will put their own spin on it. So will the IAM. Rampers that got screwed over will put it in their light. Some people are just militant. I don't want that. I want the truth.
 
I want the truth.
Unfortunately, the truth is that there isn't one correct answer. Well, there is one correct statement - the company can't abrogate your contract since there's no BK judge to run to - but that doesn't answer your question.

Jim
 
Been reading for a while and finally decided to register, and I'm asking what I think is the biggest question that should have been asked that hasn't. If the 141 vote is a "No", what happens? I've asked several people on the ramp, and he's some of the answers:

"We renegotiate. They need us to transition."
"Section 6 negotiations start on the West contract."
"We roll into the current USAir CBA with no changes."
"I dunno."

And that last one is the most honest. What DOES happen? Everyone has their own ideas, and most, even though the ideas themselves vary, can all be based on logical thinking. So, here's the deal. I want to know what happens if the vote is "No". I encourage ANYONE to answer, be it a ramper, IAM, US Airways, somewhere else, where ever. But there are two rules. The first is that you must provide the facts that say so. And second, the source of the facts must be provided as well.

I ask this because I can't get a straight answer consistantly, and have NEVER heard anyone say "Well (insert scenario here) will happen, and here's why. If you look at (insert source) you will find that it specifies (insert result) will happen."

Everyone single person has their own agenda. That doesn't mean that they're corrupt or dishonest. What it DOES mean is that two people may see things in their own viewpoint. We're all human, and that's a quality of humanity. We see what we want. And that's why I want the facts to support it. Actually that's not the only reason. The other reason is that I don't trust anyone. I know the company will put their own spin on it. So will the IAM. Rampers that got screwed over will put it in their light. Some people are just militant. I don't want that. I want the truth.
I'm surprised at the question since much that is known has already been repeated.
However, the best way to answer what will happen is to just stick with the facts, or what is known.
Anything else is opinion.
There are only two scenerios that can happen. Either US AIRWAYS enhances its offer to be equitable and that second T/A is approved, or the ramp rats force US AIRWAYS to do the one thing they been avoiding like the plague...go to arbitration. Either/or....that's what happens and it is objective and factual. Once in Arbitration, nobody knows the outcome...and that includes Parker, who has $627 million he is responsible for. But there are other things that are known.

A NO vote actually preserves benefits, which is odd since US AIRWAYS is on the verge of making a billion dollars and not in bankruptcy. It should be the other way around with a thriving company who has a unionized workforce. The following are just a portion of what is 'known' by all of us about voting No. Here's what happens"

A NO Vote also protects the profit sharing for all so that they can participate in profits.
A NO vote also protects STD, LTD, Holidays, vacation, holiday pay, double time, profit sharing, shift differ, scope protections that guarantee the 19 stations will not be contracted out in 3.5 years.
A No vote also protects section 6 negotiations.
A NO vote also protects the arbitration cases [part time & Back pay]. This award could be worth 1200 full time jobs and also $627 million.
A NO vote also preserves that the duration of the bankruptcy contract is not extended to 2012.

I had a list of about a dozen more things but these should suffice for now. Again, just pointing to the scoreboard.

I say, keep it simple. Everyone knows the contract sux as I have not heard one person say they were proud of voting yes or advocating that this contract is fair. There is no reason to vote yes on a contract that one is not comfortable with. The workers aren't compelled to vote yes to this, the company is compelled to get a transition agreement and to further shiled itself from arbitration.

Remember, a "NO" Vote can stand alone, separate of arbitration because much is kept, even with arbitration which is just a huge plus.

I hope this answers your question.

regards,
 
First of all I do have to agree with boeing boy we dont really no for sure what will happen.
Thats why its such an important decision.
As far as what Tim says we all know he doesnt even work for this company anymore.
So you can take what he says for what it is.
As far as prtection holidays and double time I dont exactly know what that means all of that is still in the TA and lets remember thats all this is a TA its not a brandnew contract like some would like its just an agreement to get the work groups together.
A no vote will keep parttime on the west from getting family coverage on there insurance
which I have yet to be mentioned here.
A no vote will also keep everyone at very low wages for sometime to come.
And dont even go into but we have arbitration becasue that is still going to be a crap shoot.
That 627million dollar figure Tim says Doug said is true but I IMO that that is inflated just to make it look worse than the actual number would be.
Oh and one more thing about the IAM may be in violation of there bylaws by not voting on the same day. Im not sure if thats true but I think it is totally iresponsable for you guys out there giving out voting totals before all votes are counted.
I for one still wont decide till the day I vote which way is best I just know I will vote and except whatever the outcome and just move on.
 
First of all I do have to agree with boeing boy we dont really no for sure what will happen.
Thats why its such an important decision.
As far as what Tim says we all know he doesnt even work for this company anymore.
So you can take what he says for what it is.
As far as prtection holidays and double time I dont exactly know what that means all of that is still in the TA and lets remember thats all this is a TA its not a brandnew contract like some would like its just an agreement to get the work groups together.
A no vote will keep parttime on the west from getting family coverage on there insurance
which I have yet to be mentioned here.
A no vote will also keep everyone at very low wages for sometime to come.
And dont even go into but we have arbitration becasue that is still going to be a crap shoot.
That 627million dollar figure Tim says Doug said is true but I IMO that that is inflated just to make it look worse than the actual number would be.
Oh and one more thing about the IAM may be in violation of there bylaws by not voting on the same day. Im not sure if thats true but I think it is totally iresponsable for you guys out there giving out voting totals before all votes are counted.
I for one still wont decide till the day I vote which way is best I just know I will vote and except whatever the outcome and just move on.
 
First of all I do have to agree with boeing boy we dont really no for sure what will happen.
Thats why its such an important decision.
As far as what Tim says we all know he doesnt even work for this company anymore.
So you can take what he says for what it is.
As far as prtection holidays and double time I dont exactly know what that means all of that is still in the TA and lets remember thats all this is a TA its not a brandnew contract like some would like its just an agreement to get the work groups together.
A no vote will keep parttime on the west from getting family coverage on there insurance
which I have yet to be mentioned here.
A no vote will also keep everyone at very low wages for sometime to come.
And dont even go into but we have arbitration becasue that is still going to be a crap shoot.
That 627million dollar figure Tim says Doug said is true but I IMO that that is inflated just to make it look worse than the actual number would be.
Oh and one more thing about the IAM may be in violation of there bylaws by not voting on the same day. Im not sure if thats true but I think it is totally iresponsable for you guys out there giving out voting totals before all votes are counted.
I for one still wont decide till the day I vote which way is best I just know I will vote and except whatever the outcome and just move on.
what's irresponsible is the IAM holding votes on different days. Don't think too highly of this board as an exclusive site for vote totals. These totals are common knowledge to many, if not hundreds. The vote counts aren't exclusive to me or this board, many are already aware of the counts as perhaps it is the IAM flamming the flames themselves. Many saw this happening and that is why many figured PHX would be the first hub to get started. BUT that is exactly why the DL141 bylaws mention the mandatory obligations of the Executive board and further, to keep voting on the same day
Canale had 4 weeks to organize a single day of voting but he failed this. This matter is now in 'review' and a process may be triggered 'shortly' by key workers.

regards,
 
I think I need to clarify a point. I am not at all interested in this thread having to do with the benefits or drawbacks of voting for or against. There are plenty enough threads about that as it is. I want to know what will happen contract wise. If the vote is a "Yes", we know what happens; there will be a transition to a new agreement. But what happens agreement wise if the vote is "No"? Payscales, disability, outsourcing, none of those interest me for the purpose of this thread. And I don't care WHO gives the information, so long as it's FACT and supported by SOURCES. I am simply interested in what happens agreementwise. Don't get the wrong idea. I do care about all the points. But no one has said what will happen to the agreements in a "No" vote. That is what I'm interested in.
 
I think I need to clarify a point. I am not at all interested in this thread having to do with the benefits or drawbacks of voting for or against. There are plenty enough threads about that as it is. I want to know what will happen contract wise. If the vote is a "Yes", we know what happens; there will be a transition to a new agreement. But what happens agreement wise if the vote is "No"? Payscales, disability, outsourcing, none of those interest me for the purpose of this thread. And I don't care WHO gives the information, so long as it's FACT and supported by SOURCES. I am simply interested in what happens agreementwise. Don't get the wrong idea. I do care about all the points. But no one has said what will happen to the agreements in a "No" vote. That is what I'm interested in.

well near as i can tell , if you want the clear cut black and white of it , you need to read the contracts ....

The west would continue under it's former TWU contract until such time as a transition agreement was negoatied (in a very pratical sense that would most likely be until the East's current contract expires )

The east would continue under their current BK contract till that expires which i think is at the end of 2009 unless they won in court arbitration at which point they would revert back to their umm 1999 contract i think ?

my sources are the CBA's ..