Where Is The Outrage Indeed!

[Dea Certe]

OK, I sit here and read all the boards. Every airline employee at all the majors are under attack.

Our pensions.

Our pay.

Our benefits.

Our seniority.

Our respect.

And what do we do about? Squabble with one another, airline against airline, classification against classification, rank against rank. Senior vs Junior. Base against Base.

Meanwhile, back at name-the-HQ, they love it. It certainly diverts our energies against standing up to them.

It's the domino effect. Knock one down and rest will follow. EAL gets lorded over our heads since some of us have conveniently forgotten EAL employees did put an effective stop to Frank Lorenzo and cooled the industry wolves for a while.

It's not a coincidence that ALPA always takes the first hit. They nearly always have the most to lose. When will ALPA National take a united stand against all this management rubbish? If all pilots took their chosen, and hard-earned wings with the respect they deserve, this couldn't happen.

If all the AMT's took their hard-earned skills and valued their profession, this couldn't happen.

If the flight attendants at every airline respected each other at every airline, this couldn't happen.

If RES and CSA recognized their worth at every airline, this couldn't happen.

Meanwhile, the traveling gypsy management teams hop from airline to airline, gaining increased compensation packets and ever heftier golden parachutes. Geez, they don't even have to have airline experience! Just a good grasp of the Simon Legree method of Labor Relations will get them on the payroll!

How is this right?

I am outraged! Shouldn't you be as well?

Dea

 

[BoeingBoy]

Yes, and thanks "Mother Dea"

Jim

 

[Heinrich]

The employees of the major legacy carriers are in denial over new market circumstances and conditions.

PERIOD. END OF STORY.

Yes it is ashame that things got this way. For me, personally, it is the Wal-Martization of America. I could, as a passenger, go on and on for how idiotic it is to fly Southwest instead of USAir.

But regardless of that, the reality of life is that people do fly Southwest instead of USAir and they prefer it. j

Could management have reacted earlier and more swiftly?

Yes, they could have reduced salaries and benefits a few years ago.

But all the dragging, kicking and screamig doesn't stop it.

 

[repeet]

Add me to the list of outraged, ticked, and thinking about appropriate responses.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Heinrich,

"But all the dragging, kicking and screamig doesn't stop it."

If enough will just vote "No", it WILL stop it, at least at this airline. And the reduction in industry capacity will make it easier to stop at other airlines.

Labor only needs one weapon. And in a way you're right - it's not dragging, or kicking, or screaming. It's simply the realization that being willing to risk losing this job is the only possible way to keep this a decent job.

Once enough realize that, the rest is easy. Until then, management will continue to play on the fears of those unwilling to risk losing this job and let that fear do their work for them.

Jim

 

[n711ac]

I have been a mech for 27 yrs and U was my last stop (2 others before).Let the young take it to WAL-MART pay and see how they like working nights,weekends and etc. Then one day when the BIG BRID goes down and FAA is asking whats going on and you have to worry what you did wrong it nice knowing that any body can do this job.

 

[Dea Certe]

Heinrich,

You're right, it is the Wal Marting of America. I feel as a consumer, we are getting fewer choices. And less money to spend on those choices.

As a customer, you've seen what you've lost in way of services and amenities. Frankly, I think it's nuts that the airline industry has treated its customers so badly, they need a support group like Flyertalk to figure out the awards systems and fare structures!

What we need is a not only a rationalization of fares but a simpler way to fly. Southwest has managed very nicely. Once, they were a "niche carrier" and now they rule the skies! And can pay their employees a fair wage.

I suppose what really sticks in my craw is that many employees and customers have tried to tell airline managements what they want and need in the way of service and product. The industry hasn't listened very well. Now, it's probably too late and everyone is in panic mode.

Most employees want to give great service. We want to be proud of our product. It's only a little enlightened self-interest; happy customers are easy to serve! Happy customers come back, spend their money and we have job security! It's a win-win situation for all concerned, shareholders included!

Jim,

Yes Mother Dea is on the warpath. I think I'll leave the TV off and just listen to my Golden Oldies.
"In my Room" by the Beachboys might be soothing about now.

Dea

 

[Heinrich]

I have been a mech for 27 yrs and U was my last stop (2 others before).Let the young take it to WAL-MART pay and see how they like working nights,weekends and etc. Then one day when the BIG BRID goes down and FAA is asking whats going on and you have to worry what you did wrong it nice knowing that any body can do this job.

[post="174956"][/post]​

That works in theory but in real life more "big birds" have gone down at US than at WN.

Sorry, I know that's crude but as a math figure....... :unsure:

 

[hadEnuff]

Service at one time was the name of the game but we are not a service industry any more. In one respect flying is getting very close to buying gas. You drive up and pick your price and swipe your card and pump your gas and away you go. A psgr walks up swipe his card and get is ticket and away he goes. Consumers do not want to pay for the service that airlines once provided and they are getting what they want.... cheap fares. In fact, it would not surprise me that within the next six months if you are eligible for self service check in and prefer not to it will cost you to check in with a person. Banks have moved more to automation and I sincerely feel airlines will get as much automation as they possibly can and eliminate as many humans as possible. Consumers want cheap fares and they are going to get them but that is about it!!!!!!!!

 

[Bluestreak]

It's the economy stupid.

 

[ELP_WN_Psgr]

Mother Dea:

Let me suggest a few soothing songs:

Rolling Stones "Mother's Little Helper"

Ramones "I wanna be sedated"

Joni Mitchell "Twisted"

and since the convention is on tonight, the Dead Kennedys "We've Got A Bigger Problem Now (California uber alles)"

Seriously, though, I have never been especially fond of union power.

If the folks at USAirways were sitting at parity +1 and thumbing their nose at management (or giving them the finger) I would be thinking "Okay, management, shut 'er down and throw those rascals out of a job."

But that's not the way it is.

Employees have provided concessions. Several times.

Each time management has squandered what they were given.

It is pretty far removed from me as far as what happens in this particular case. Whether USAirways is there or not, it isn't going to impact how I get to Las Vegas or Dallas or San Antonio nor will it probably affect the price of the ticket.

But maybe it is the West Texas Fundamentalist Republican in me coming out.....sometimes you just have to do what's right and to heck with the associated consequences..

To me there is no guarantee that your management or lack thereof will take what you give them and do anything constructive. If you had leaders...who were sharing in the sacrifice, and laying all the cards on the table, and being upfront and honest and open...I might feel differently. But you have the same buttoned down, blow dried, A#1 business school grads running the show and they appear to not really give a damn about the company, its history, the employees, or the passengers.

If management had any guts at all, we'd wake up in the morning and see the entire airline had a new fare structure, coast to coast, every flight, every seat, every day. Unfortunately your finance folks and management all appear to be economic girlie men.

Dunno what'll happen, Mother Dea, but good luck.

Then again, the FAs could always demand the contract I wanted WN to offer their FAs.....you work for $1.60 an hour, but keep all the liquor revenue. You could retire on a couple of Las Vegas trips.....but I don't think you;d want to bid Salt Lake City.

 

[Dea Certe]

ELP WN Psgr,

Thanks for the musical play list. The Eagles are summing it up for me pretty well right now:

"Witchy Woman" "Desperado" and probably closest it to all: "All Ready Gone".

I might not mind Salt Lake City. But wouldn't that cut into my liquor sales revenue?

But you did hit all the high points. Thanks.

As for unions, well, I came to believe they were a necessary evil. I believe they did help create a thriving middle class and improved the quality of life for everyone in America. I'm beginning to believe Big Labor is pretty much worthless today.

You mention you are a Republican Fundamentalist. Are you secretly a Certe? If so, maybe you can join the rest of my clan in the ranting at our next family gathering. I'll be the one they rant at!

Dea

 

[700UW]

That works in theory but in real life more "big birds" have gone down at US than at WN.

Sorry, I know that's crude but as a math figure....... :unsure:

[post="174964"][/post]​

Hienie,

Please show me where any of the planes that went down were caused by a US Airways mechanic.

Let me save you the time, you won't.

 

[youngblood]

Heinrich,

"But all the dragging, kicking and screamig doesn't stop it."

If enough will just vote "No", it WILL stop it, at least at this airline. And the reduction in industry capacity will make it easier to stop at other airlines.

Labor only needs one weapon. And in a way you're right - it's not dragging, or kicking, or screaming. It's simply the realization that being willing to risk losing this job is the only possible way to keep this a decent job.

Once enough realize that, the rest is easy. Until then, management will continue to play on the fears of those unwilling to risk losing this job and let that fear do their work for them.

Jim

[post="174955"][/post]​

I couldn't have said it better. Management is like a dog - they smell fear and will attack.

Sometimes making the right decision isn't always easy. We are not a bunch of two year olds that are screaming when they don't get their way. We are adults that have simply had enough. If 1.5 billion wasn't enough, then sink the ship. The majors had 10 years to prepare for the growth of the LCCs, but did they? I think everyone can answer that question for themselves. There were tons of things that could have been done to lower costs years ago. My professors, teachers, parents, life's experiences etc. taught me that simple is usually best. I guess Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc. did not include that lesson in their curriculum.

 

[ktflyhome]

Dea, I whole heartedly agree with so much of what you comment on. You are refreshing and intellegent to the point.

I have a question, of which I have talked in depth of today with my fellow commrads on a 4-day trip. I asked the question: Have any of you EVER received a full disclosure from AFA on what, where, why, how our UNION DUEs have been used over the years that you have been a U employee.? I flew with a 27 year F/A. a 20 year F/A, a 8 year F/A, a 17 year F/A and myself of 11 years. NO ONE had or has ever received one iota of information from AFA as to where our monthly/yearly dues goes to.

I am certainly not pro-management at this time, but we spout off on these boards as to where all the money is going, what is management hiding, our profits, our losses, etc, etc, etc., yet I have never , NEVER along with those f/a with years above me have EVER reveived ANY kind of information on where our UNION DUES GO. I would like a break down, some kind of informatin, as we all would on what , where, how our monthly Union Dues are spent. I think this is only fair, if we are to support this group, who supposedly supports us.

Many, of my division are starting to question this. Where is the $$$$$$ going. We would like to know!!!!!!