Whew...

[FCYTravis]

US Airways now has the largest Airbus fleet of any airline in North America.

Even if they wanted to change that, they couldn't. Where's the money going to come from?

As the 737 Classics are phased out, they'll be replaced by more Airbuses. Once the A350s come in, the only thing left Boeing will be the 752s.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Travis,

I'd only quibble with one thing - the rest is right on as far as I'm concerned.

Since the A350's will be bigger than the A330-200's, I think it's an open question whether the 767's will be replaced that soon of if so with what. Airbus, with the announcement that they're going to be shutting down the 300/310 production line, will have no airplane between the A321 and A330.

The discussion of an all-Boeing fleet is a "what if" thing - "what if" Wolf had decided differently and we'd have had two fleet type's since early 2002? Probably wouldn't have made US profitable by itself, but considering we train some pilots twice a year just because of the summer TA expansion/fall TA cutback, you can imagine the cost of having 4 fleet types instead of 2. It would have made the hole we found ourself's in less deep and digging out less painful.

At this point only something totally unexpected could alter the shift to an all Airbus narrow-body fleet and a largely Airbus fleet as a whole.

Jim

 

[PhillyAir5]

Jim,

You are absolutely correct from a business standpoint. US made some mistakes when taking on so many "different" types of aircraft. I was already under the assumption that the A319 and A320 were brought in to take over the 737-300 and 737-400 fleets eventually...

Spindoc,

I would also agree with your assessment as follows:

The "new" US Airways fleet would benefit greatly by having the following simplified fleet:

B737-400
B737-700
B757-200
B757-300
B767-200
EMB170
EMB190
DH8-Q400
CRJ700

I just dont see it happening. It would make sense to use the better product, but is the "new" in position to make that kind of investment. IMO, not now and they never will be. No one could handle that kind of change over in the current market.

Great article on the Wide-Body jet:

This ties in our discussion about the "lack" of use of the bigger jets.

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/columnist/g...-grossman_x.htm

 

[hulagirl]

Is it just me or has anyone noticed that everything that we do Northwest is asking for now? All my friends at northwest keep saying that that is all they hear on their side...Usairways, Usairways, Usairways. They want our contract, payscales, and equipment types. Remember when this happened to us with America West. Is it to much out of the realm to think that something else might be happening here. Now they are even consulting the company that gathered all the money for our merger. Is it too early to put my transfer in for DTW?

Don't forget where Doug Parker came from...

 

[FCYTravis]

Since the A350's will be bigger than the A330-200's, I think it's an open question whether the 767's will be replaced that soon of if so with what.

Yeah, I forgot about that, the 767 is more or less "right-sized" for some of those routes.

Here's the other thing to consider. If Wolf had made the call to go with 737NG aircraft, would the merger with America West have happened?

At best, it would have been much more complicated. Instead of having compatible aircraft fleets (aside from the V2500 vs. CFM56) the two carriers would have had two divergent fleets. You'd end up with a hundred or so NGs and about 95 A319/A320s.

One of the reasons Parker said the merger made sense was because of the very similar fleets - with both airlines slowly phasing out 737 Classics in favor of A320-series.

 

[BoeingBoy]

US made some mistakes when taking on so many "different" types of aircraft.

Well, merged their way into the situation is more accurate....

"old, old" US had BAC111's, 737's, 727's, and had ordered/started to receive F100's.

PSA had MD80's & Bae 146's (I think all the 727's were gone by then)

PI had F28's, 737's, 727's, and 767's.

So almost overnight, US ended up with 8 fleet types. Like I said earlier, I give Wolf credit (whether deserved or not) for undertaking the major fleet restructuring - just always wished he'd decided on Boeing.

Jim

 

[FCYTravis]

Well, merged their way into the situation is more accurate....

What aircraft did US actually take new-delivery of? Some of the 737s and 767s, but did they get any MD80s other than the PSA ones? Seems like the MD80s went East pretty fast. Were the BAe-146s ever used on East routes?

 

[700UW]

The 757s, the first 10 were used then the rest brand new from Boeing.

No other MD-80s then the ones PSA had.

 

[PhillyAir5]

Jim,

"Well, merged their way into the situation is more accurate...."

--> correct you are.

 

[BoeingBoy]

What aircraft did US actually take new-delivery of?

If you mean post US/PSA/PI merger, the Airbuses (obvious, I know...), 737-400's (the 1st deliveries were just coming at the merger), and 767's (somebody can add if any of the 757's were new - I don't think so).

Were the BAe-146s ever used on East routes?

Not that I recall. Also as I recall, they parked them with the pulldown of the intra-west coast flying and kept paying for them for a while. Always wondered why they didn't use them for intra-FLA flying (the old PI Florida Shuttle) and out to the islands (sort of a FLL focus city idea 10 years earlier).

Jim

 

[700UW]

600, 601, 602, 603, 604, 605, 606, 607, 608, 609 and 618 were all used from EAL.

610 to 633 were all new except for 618.

Remember 610 was the ideas that fly 757.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Thanks for the correction, 700.

Jim

 

[PhillyAir5]

Pardon this question if its been proposed before or thought of etc.

But would it benefit the new regime to unload its 737 fleet and start fresh with just Airbus and Embraer? Could they sell the existing boeing fleet when the new Airbus's roll in?

 

[PITbull]

Is it just me or has anyone noticed that everything that we do Northwest is asking for now? All my friends at northwest keep saying that that is all they hear on their side...Usairways, Usairways, Usairways. They want our contract, payscales, and equipment types. Remember when this happened to us with America West. Is it to much out of the realm to think that something else might be happening here. Now they are even consulting the company that gathered all the money for our merger. Is it too early to put my transfer in for DTW?

That's because U has the lowest wages of all legacies as well as pretty much at the bottom of the LCC.

When USAirways was in negotiations (all 3 times) all they talked about is having wages in line with AWA and JetBlue work rules.

And that was all they talked about until they got it. And so the story goes that all the legacies want USAirways wages workrules and benefits because they are the lowest and worst in the industry.

And...they will get it.

All we be competing at the bottom...(remember, the race to the bottom is at hand).

Those who weren't paying attention before have no choice but to pay attention now....its all over the industry and U set the bar low.

 

[BoeingBoy]

But would it benefit the new regime to unload its 737 fleet and start fresh with just Airbus and Embraer? Could they sell the existing boeing fleet when the new Airbus's roll in?

I can't say for sure about the West fleet, but the entire East fleet is either leased or mortgaged (EETC's to be more exact - the planes are collateral for loans).

The leased planes obviously can't be sold, only returned to the leasor as the leases expire or with agreement of the leasor. No money to buy new planes there.

The mortgaged planes could be sold, with some/all of the proceeds going to pay off the EETC's. I have no idea how much cash could be raised, if any.

I can only assume that the West fleet is much the same, since this is pretty much the pattern for all airlines. Sorta like houses - most people don't plunk down cash, they either rent or borrow.

Of course, all this doesn't preclude changing over the fleet over time. As leases expire, replacement planes are leased or financed with new EETC's. Likewise, as mortgaged planes are retired, replacements are leased or financed with new EETC's. Just hard to do in a short time. I would expect that over the next 5-7 years the 737's will be all but gone.

Jim

[Edit to add] US was pretty successful in BK1 at driving down the cost of aircraft leases. It was after 911 when used aircraft values were pretty much in the toilet and leasors didn't want the airplanes on their hands to remarket.