Who To Commend For The Profit?

[Bob Owens]

Funny you should mention it - the project is currently underway.

[post="283947"][/post]​

And this is a new idea?

Funny but I remember hearing all this stuff twenty years ago. Whats the next brilliant new concept? Ideaas in aaction?

 

[Hackman]

<_< Since you brought it up! Did you forget about our fellow "Union Brothers" doing everything in their power to get reed of anything, and everything tht was TWA??? Except our aircraft, which they are now working in TUL! While our people are out in the street! As you have so eliqintly put it! " What go'es arround, comes arround!" :angry:

[post="283776"][/post]​

I've never forgot about TWA sacrifices. We that don't believe any of the twu company union BS tried to warn you, but you people thought the twu and its favorite Local 514 were your friends. You MCI boys didn't believe us then, do you now?

In addition, the iam not doing much for you either except to throw you guys away.

Remember, "The team twu saved 3 maintenance bases and 12000 jobs"...... 🙄

 

[MCI transplant]

I've never forgot about TWA sacrifices. We that don't believe any of the twu company union BS tried to warn you, but you people thought the twu and its favorite Local 514 were your friends. You MCI boys didn't believe us then, do you now?

In addition, the iam not doing much for you either except to throw you guys away.

Remember, "The team twu saved 3 maintenance bases and 12000 jobs"...... 🙄

[post="284018"][/post]​

<_< RIGHT!!!!! :angry: People as long as I have access to a computor, I won't let you forget about how you, in concort with, aa management, treated the ex- emploees of TWA!!! We came from a Union we weren't 100% happy with, but people, they were light years ahead of what you call a union! The greed and narrow mindedness is unbelieveable!!!!:angry:

 

[Wretched Wrench]

<_< RIGHT!!!!! :angry: People as long as I have access to a computor, I won't let you forget about how you, in concort with, aa management, treated the ex- emploees of TWA!!! We came from a Union we weren't 100% happy with, but people, they were light years ahead of what you call a union! The greed and narrow mindedness is unbelieveable!!!!:angry:

Of course you are angry. TWA mechs have indeed suffered the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune.

But there is another way of looking at it. The TWU had its first obligation to its dues paying members. Not only in a moral sense, but in the sense of staving off the AMFA threat. There would be many more disaffected TWU members voting AMFA last summer if it had gone in a way that devalued TWU mechs seniority. So, it became a decision. Dollars and cents. Which group of disaffected mechs is going to be the largest and cost us the representation election? The TWU hierarchy made the right decision, and stayed in power.

Hierarchies always do that. You knew that going in.

 

[Bob Owens]

Of course you are angry. TWA mechs have indeed suffered the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune.

But there is another way of looking at it. The TWU had its first obligation to its dues paying members. Not only in a moral sense, but in the sense of staving off the AMFA threat. There would be many more disaffected TWU members voting AMFA last summer if it had gone in a way that devalued TWU mechs seniority. So, it became a decision. Dollars and cents. Which group of disaffected mechs is going to be the largest and cost us the representation election? The TWU hierarchy made the right decision, and stayed in power.

Hierarchies always do that. You knew that going in.

[post="284149"][/post]​

Ironically the only people from AA that favored dovetailing were AMFA mechanics from Tulsa. But instead of seeing those guys as allies the guys from MCI sided with those from Tulsa who wanted them stapled and the union that stapled them.

The fact of the matter is that the decision to staple or dovetail is not the members choice. Nothing in the Constitution gives the members the right to decide which way they are integrated. When Trans Carib or AirCal was aquired the members were not given an option, the International dictated that they would be dovetailed, just as they dictated that Reno would be stapled. I dont think the IAM asked you guys how you wanted to integrate Ozark either. There is a good reason for that, given the choice no group of workers is going to vote to give away their seniority to another group and by allowing them to vote on it all you are doing is causing more division between the two groups. The International put on the dog and pony show in order to divide the membership and to make it so that you dont blame them. They took the cowards way out. This way whenever some one in MCI brings it up they sit back and claim that "we do what the members wanted, we are a democratic union, I personally agree, you should have been dovetailed". This gets the gullible to trust the International and look at their fellow members as the bad guys. From the posts I seen here, its pretty much worked.

I really dont think that it would have had that much of an effect on the AMFA vote. If MCI had reacted in a logical fashion dovetailing would have helped the TWU stay in power and stapling would have helped AMFA. Thats why the TWU went with the charade of asking the members what they wanted. This way they could staple but put the blame on the members, not the TWU. The TWU probably hoped that by stapling it would weaken support for AMFA(whose position was dovetailing) at the line stations.

Most of the resistance to dovetailing was from the Line stations where AMFA gets most of its support. The reason why is because TWA was a very senior airline. For instance at JFK where TWA had over 200 mechanics most of them would have had most of the 400 mechanics at JFK beat. Half the AA guys at JFK would have lost their jobs to make room for the TWA guys and of the 200 AA guys that remained most would have been bumped off their shifts.

The line is solidly AMFA, dovetailing or stapling would not really have affected Tulsa either way. So if the TWU had dovetailed TWA most of the impact would have been with members who dont want the TWU anyway, actually pretty much the line stations belonging to just two Locals, 562 in New York and 563 in LAX. However it would have made all those TWA members loyal TWU supporters, even at the line. JFK would end up 50% AMFA and 50% TWU. So dovetailing would have set AMFA back if anything.

One would have thought that stapling would have done the opposite. By stapling TWA they should have added 2000 AMFA votes to the balance but for some reason thats not the case.

Hey MCI Transplant, would you consider the Teamsters???

 

[MCI transplant]

Ironically the only people from AA that favored dovetailing were AMFA mechanics from Tulsa. But instead of seeing those guys as allies the guys from MCI sided with those from Tulsa who wanted them stapled and the union that stapled them.

The fact of the matter is that the decision to staple or dovetail is not the members choice. Nothing in the Constitution gives the members the right to decide which way they are integrated. When Trans Carib or AirCal was aquired the members were not given an option, the International dictated that they would be dovetailed, just as they dictated that Reno would be stapled. I dont think the IAM asked you guys how you wanted to integrate Ozark either. There is a good reason for that, given the choice no group of workers is going to vote to give away their seniority to another group and by allowing them to vote on it all you are doing is causing more division between the two groups. The International put on the dog and pony show in order to divide the membership and to make it so that you dont blame them. They took the cowards way out. This way whenever some one in MCI brings it up they sit back and claim that "we do what the members wanted, we are a democratic union, I personally agree, you should have been dovetailed". This gets the gullible to trust the International and look at their fellow members as the bad guys. From the posts I seen here, its pretty much worked.

I really dont think that it would have had that much of an effect on the AMFA vote. If MCI had reacted in a logical fashion dovetailing would have helped the TWU stay in power and stapling would have helped AMFA. Thats why the TWU went with the charade of asking the members what they wanted. This way they could staple but put the blame on the members, not the TWU. The TWU probably hoped that by stapling it would weaken support for AMFA(whose position was dovetailing) at the line stations.

Most of the resistance to dovetailing was from the Line stations where AMFA gets most of its support. The reason why is because TWA was a very senior airline. For instance at JFK where TWA had over 200 mechanics most of them would have had most of the 400 mechanics at JFK beat. Half the AA guys at JFK would have lost their jobs to make room for the TWA guys and of the 200 AA guys that remained most would have been bumped off their shifts.

The line is solidly AMFA, dovetailing or stapling would not really have affected Tulsa either way. So if the TWU had dovetailed TWA most of the impact would have been with members who dont want the TWU anyway, actually pretty much the line stations belonging to just two Locals, 562 in New York and 563 in LAX. However it would have made all those TWA members loyal TWU supporters, even at the line. JFK would end up 50% AMFA and 50% TWU. So dovetailing would have set AMFA back if anything.

One would have thought that stapling would have done the opposite. By stapling TWA they should have added 2000 AMFA votes to the balance but for some reason thats not the case.

Hey MCI Transplant, would you consider the Teamsters???

[post="284184"][/post]​

<_< In a heartbeat!!!!!!!!!

 

[MCI transplant]

Ironically the only people from AA that favored dovetailing were AMFA mechanics from Tulsa. But instead of seeing those guys as allies the guys from MCI sided with those from Tulsa who wanted them stapled and the union that stapled them.

The fact of the matter is that the decision to staple or dovetail is not the members choice. Nothing in the Constitution gives the members the right to decide which way they are integrated. When Trans Carib or AirCal was aquired the members were not given an option, the International dictated that they would be dovetailed, just as they dictated that Reno would be stapled. I dont think the IAM asked you guys how you wanted to integrate Ozark either. There is a good reason for that, given the choice no group of workers is going to vote to give away their seniority to another group and by allowing them to vote on it all you are doing is causing more division between the two groups. The International put on the dog and pony show in order to divide the membership and to make it so that you dont blame them. They took the cowards way out. This way whenever some one in MCI brings it up they sit back and claim that "we do what the members wanted, we are a democratic union, I personally agree, you should have been dovetailed". This gets the gullible to trust the International and look at their fellow members as the bad guys. From the posts I seen here, its pretty much worked.

I really dont think that it would have had that much of an effect on the AMFA vote. If MCI had reacted in a logical fashion dovetailing would have helped the TWU stay in power and stapling would have helped AMFA. Thats why the TWU went with the charade of asking the members what they wanted. This way they could staple but put the blame on the members, not the TWU. The TWU probably hoped that by stapling it would weaken support for AMFA(whose position was dovetailing) at the line stations.

Most of the resistance to dovetailing was from the Line stations where AMFA gets most of its support. The reason why is because TWA was a very senior airline. For instance at JFK where TWA had over 200 mechanics most of them would have had most of the 400 mechanics at JFK beat. Half the AA guys at JFK would have lost their jobs to make room for the TWA guys and of the 200 AA guys that remained most would have been bumped off their shifts.

The line is solidly AMFA, dovetailing or stapling would not really have affected Tulsa either way. So if the TWU had dovetailed TWA most of the impact would have been with members who dont want the TWU anyway, actually pretty much the line stations belonging to just two Locals, 562 in New York and 563 in LAX. However it would have made all those TWA members loyal TWU supporters, even at the line. JFK would end up 50% AMFA and 50% TWU. So dovetailing would have set AMFA back if anything.

One would have thought that stapling would have done the opposite. By stapling TWA they should have added 2000 AMFA votes to the balance but for some reason thats not the case.

Hey MCI Transplant, would you consider the Teamsters???

[post="284184"][/post]​

<_< Just as a foot note to what you said, from what I hear, Local 563 shot themselfs in the foot getting reed of the remaining TWAers there at LAX!!! From what I've been told by a few that ended up here at MCI, goes like this: It seems LAX had about 60 TWAers working a 767 "B"chk, and about 60+ nAAtives working an "A" chk.But TWAers because they were taking all the prime vacation times, etc., they decided that was unexceptical, and the TWAers had to go! So they came to a complete stop on their work. aa threatened to pull their check out of LAX, and finnaly did! Putting all TWAers AMT jobs out the door! But!!!! Oops! Put close to a hundred of their own people out the door also!!!!------Another example of what go'es arround, comes arround!!!!! 😛

 

[Wretched Wrench]

<_< Just as a foot note to what you said, from what I hear, Local 563 shot themselves in the foot getting reed of the remaining TWAers there at LAX!!! From what I've been told by a few that ended up here at MCI, goes like this: It seems LAX had about 60 TWAers working a 767 "B"chk, and about 60+ nAAtives working an "A" chk.But TWAers because they were taking all the prime vacation times, etc., they decided that was unexceptical, and the TWAers had to go! So they came to a complete stop on their work. aa threatened to pull their check out of LAX, and finnaly did! Putting all TWAers AMT jobs out the door! But!!!! Oops! Put close to a hundred of their own people out the door also!!!!------Another example of what go'es arround, comes arround!!!!! 😛

It's Local 564.

You got a lot else wrong, too. There was one or two problem children on that crew, but the only ones that wanted that line shut down were the Regional Manager and the Station Manager. That line was set up to fail. Their management expertise got them both fired, but not soon enough. Martinez had enough input from the troops that they were idiots, but he wouldn't listen. Some of the TWA stupidvisors contributed their own ineptitude to that operation, as well. Real geniuses. The TWA guys I knew were OK, but most of the TWA management was very poor. I don't know where they got them. If you have any connections, have your connection ask Healy or Kramer about LAX. Or ask higher up.

You are simply repeating a story you heard a part of, and have no business posting things you heard fourth or fifth-hand from someone with an agenda.

Um.....You don't have an agenda, do you?

 

[MCI transplant]

It's Local 564.

You got a lot else wrong, too. There was one or two problem children on that crew, but the only ones that wanted that line shut down were the Regional Manager and the Station Manager. That line was set up to fail. Their management expertise got them both fired, but not soon enough. Martinez had enough input from the troops that they were idiots, but he wouldn't listen. Some of the TWA stupidvisors contributed their own ineptitude to that operation, as well. Real geniuses. The TWA guys I knew were OK, but most of the TWA  management was very poor. I don't know where they got them. If you have any connections, have your connection ask Healy or Kramer about LAX. Or ask higher up.

You are simply repeating a story you heard a part of, and have no business posting things you heard fourth or fifth-hand from someone with an agenda.

Um.....You don't have an agenda, do you?

[post="284447"][/post]​

<_< Thanks wrench for streightening me out! Do I have an agenda? You betch ya!!! As do you! And please don't try and tell me what I can, and can't post!!! If it's inaccurate, and I find out about it, I'll fess up to it! Unlike some people on this board!!!! 😉 Like I said this little story came dirrectly from an "ex-Laxer", as they like to call themselfs! (no pun intended!) And yes, there was more to the story, but from what I did hear, it had to have been with the blessing of local management at the time! Not good for a company that preachs a "non discrimination" policy!!!! As for our glorious management (TWA) team there,they were something weren't they? Maybe that's one of the reasons we're where we're at today???? But if my memerory sliped on what local is out there! I do stand corrected!!!

 

[Wretched Wrench]

<_< Thanks wrench for straightening me out! Do I have an agenda? You betcha ya!!! As do you! And please don't try and tell me what I can, and can't post!!! If it's inaccurate, and I find out about it, I'll fess up to it! Unlike some people on this board!!!! 😉 Like I said this little story came directly from an "ex-Laxer", as they like to call themselfs! (no pun intended!) And yes, there was more to the story, but from what I did hear, it had to have been with the blessing of local management at the time! Not good for a company that preachs a "non discrimination" policy!!!! As for our glorious management (TWA) team there,they were something weren't they? Maybe that's one of the reasons we're where we're at today???? But if my memerory sliped on what local is out there! I do stand corrected!!!

[post="284544"][/post]​

MCI, I might have my back up a little when I hear my co- workers maligned. As I said, there were a couple of problem children on that line (one, for sure), but the bulk of them were good guys, TWA and AA alike.

You've gotta remember, if one guy screws up, it is his fault. If a whole crew screws up, it is management's fault. Either management caused of allowed the conditions to be ripe for trouble, or did not manage effectively to address the problem. I have seen it again and again. Over the years, the same guys shift around and back and forth. But the same supes have the same problems and some other supes always have good results. It even applies to whole shifts. And, sadly, it applied to a whole station during the regime mentioned. The guys didn't change. They are the same guys I have known for decades. The management changed. Now, LAX has a new management team and things are turning around. I am not tooting the horn for the new management team, just trying to say that what happens on the floor is a result of management, good or bad. Management takes bows for success, but blames problems on the troops.

AA LAX upper management and TWA lower management are what really wrecked it. I am not in love with all of our supervisors (although some are pretty good), but most of the TWA supes were really Bozos. I don't understand how TWA functioned as long as it did. Did all the smart ones leave before AA?

I am not into conspiracy theories, but there are too many good supes on the floor to have had that line fail without some sinister purpose from above. We will never know. Either Martinez was in on it or he chose to be blind.

 

[Bob Owens]

Based on the tone of your posts over the past two years, you don't let go of a grudge, regardless how small, and you never find anything positive to say.

[post="283292"][/post]​

Never? Now who is being negative? Just because I dont drink the Kool aid like you doesnt mean that I'm always bitter.

 

[MCI transplant]

MCI, I might have my back up a little when I hear my co- workers maligned. As I said, there were a couple of problem children on that line (one, for sure), but the bulk of them were good guys, TWA and AA alike.

You've gotta remember, if one guy screws up, it is his fault. If a whole crew screws up, it is management's fault. Either management caused of allowed the conditions to be ripe for trouble, or did not manage effectively to address the problem. I have seen it again and again. Over the years, the same guys shift around and back and forth. But the same supes have the same problems and some other supes always have good results. It even applies to whole shifts. And, sadly, it applied to a whole station during the regime mentioned. The guys didn't change. They are the same guys I have known for decades. The management changed. Now, LAX has a new management team and things are turning around. I am not tooting the horn for the new management team, just trying to say that what happens on the floor is a result of management, good or bad. Management takes bows for success, but blames problems on the troops.

AA LAX upper management and TWA lower management are what really wrecked it. I am not in love with all of our supervisors (although some are pretty good), but most of the TWA supes were really Bozos. I don't understand how TWA functioned as long as it did. Did all the smart ones leave before AA?

I am not into conspiracy theories, but there are too many good supes on the floor to have had that line fail without some sinister purpose from above. We will never know. Either Martinez was in on it or he chose to be blind.

[post="284608"][/post]​

<_< Wrench, don't get me wrong I realize what your saying is probably true, and I've only heard half the story from those who are now here at MCI, but as I've said before that wasn't the whole story, and yes, none of it could have happened without the knowledge and concent of both local aa, and TWA management! The exTWA supers you refure to were, well let's put it this way, I feel you were being "Deplomatic" when you just called them BOZOs!! But, "sepreate" breack rooms for nAAtive Amts, and exTWA, in the same hanger?Big screen T.V, food machines in aa's, nothing in TWA's! And God help you if a TWAer was caught in aa's breakroom!!! Oh! Ask about the increadable shrinking breakroom?(TWA's) Frencing, and combiation locks seperating the two? What about when TWA Amts taxed finished aircraft up to the terminal for the mourning flight, and the aa station personel would refuse to flag them into the gate? Or position a jetway to it when it did get into the gate? Or when talking to a Union rep, being told that it was their reponsablity to the nAAtives first!!! And again, yes, I realize I hearing just is only one side this story! 😉

 

[Hopeful]

<_< Wrench, don't get me wrong I realize what your saying is probably true, and I've only heard half the story from those who are now here at MCI, but as I've said before that wasn't the whole story, and yes, none of it could have happened without the knowledge and concent of both local aa, and TWA management! The exTWA supers you refure to were, well let's put it this way, I feel you were being "Deplomatic" when you just called them BOZOs!! But, "sepreate" breack rooms for nAAtive Amts, and exTWA, in the same hanger?Big screen T.V, food machines in aa's, nothing in TWA's! And God help you if a TWAer was caught in aa's breakroom!!! Oh! Ask about the increadable shrinking breakroom?(TWA's) Frencing, and combiation locks seperating the two? What about when TWA Amts taxed finished aircraft up to the terminal for the mourning flight, and the aa station personel would refuse to flag them into the gate? Or position a jetway to it when it did get into the gate? Or when talking to a Union rep, being told that it was their reponsablity to the nAAtives first!!! And again, yes, I realize I hearing just is only one side this story! 😉

[post="284680"][/post]​

MCI TRANSPLANT:

Somewhat of a the same scenario exists art JFK between the AAers and the TWAers. You are right, there are two sides to every story.

The JFK TWAers have been discussing their lawsuit since they started arriving at JFK 4 years ago. When they get one more assignment than the other guy, they run to human resources that they are being treated unfairly.

Let me tell you how unfairly TWAers are being treated. Last week a group of TWAers hit an aircraft causing damage while towing into hangar.

GUESS WHAT?
NO INVESTIGATION, BOI, REPRIMAND,,,,,NOTHING!


DO YOU KNOW WHY, MCI TRANSPLANT?????????????????

BECAUSE THERE ARE ALREAYD LAWSUITS FILED WITH HUMAN RESORCRES AND THE EEOC AGAINST AA BY FORMER TWAERS ABOUT UNFAIR TREATMENT. AND AA DOESN'T WANT TO ROCK THE BOAT ANY FURTHER!


THEY DON'T CLAIM DISCRIMINATION WHEN A FORMER TWA SUPERVISOR TAKES THE COMPANY VAN AND PICKS THEM UP AT LGA AFTER THERE WEEKLY STL COMMUTE! AND THEN HE SIGNS THEM IN AFTER MIDNIGHT..




YEP, TWO SIDES TO EVERY STORY!

 

[Wretched Wrench]

But, "sepreate" breack rooms for nAAtive Amts, and exTWA, in the same hanger?Big screen T.V, food machines in aa's, nothing in TWA's! And God help you if a TWAer was caught in aa's breakroom!!! Oh! Ask about the increadable shrinking breakroom?(TWA's) Frencing, and combiation locks seperating the two?

MCI, I would question the truth of that, but cannot dispute it since I did not work at the old TWA hangar. I cannot imagine the ex TWA stupidvisors not bringing up this issue. Were any complaints registered with the union? I will ask around and see, although most of the guys that worked that line are laid off. Yes, AA guys, too.

What about when TWA Amts taxed finished aircraft up to the terminal for the mourning flight, and the aa station personel would refuse to flag them into the gate?

At LAX, cargo personnel marshal taxiing aircraft into the gate. They have no way of knowing the employment history of the person or persons taxiing the aircraft. They are notorious for not being at the gate for a maintenance taxi in. It is quite possible that the absent cargo guys were even ex TWA.

In any case, it is a misperception. based on an incomplete knowledge of the situation.

Or position a jetway to it when it did get into the gate?

Jetways are positioned by ticket agents. See above answer.

Again, a misperception based on an incomplete knowledge of the situation.

Or when talking to a Union rep, being told that it was their reponsablity to the nAAtives first!!! And again, yes, I realize I hearing just is only one side this story!

Got any names? As a minor union official during that time, I went out of my way to try to assure the TWA guys that they were getting decent treatment at the Local 564 level. I found many to be totally negative, even to the point of hurting themselves. I was met with all sorts of bad manners and false accusations, all unfounded in fact. I promised everyone with whom I had such a conversation that I would jump down the throat of any TWU official reported to me. And carry it higher if necessary. BTW, I am not without influence, and am not shy. I never had anything concrete or actionable reported to me. I absorbed a lot of abuse on behalf of the TWU and tried assiduously to prove to those who complained that Local 564 was trying to treat them well. I will tell you for certain sure that our local president at the time, JR, is a 100% upstanding fellow and would not allow any unfair treatment. You can put that in the bank. Same for our VP at the time, Rick Di Marco. These are the best union guys anyone could ask for. Please do not besmirch them on specious allegations from persons disgruntled for other reasons. I understand the bitterness of the guys, but, again, I found nothing to correct at the local level. The few TWA mechs I knew personally were OK, but I was often rebuffed on a personal level by many of them, so the bitterness seemed to be getting out of hand, and was directed at the wrong people. I would suspect a little misperception here and there, and perhaps some exaggeration. Some times the hardest people to deal with are those who angry with themselves.

And I did not see management treating the ex-TWA mechs any differently. In fact, the supervisors I worked with went out of their way to give them a square deal. (Yes, I can even defend management).

Again, I believe this to be mostly misperception. But the facts are not as clear as the previous two accusations.

Although, as mentioned before, I did not work at the TWA hangar, and only visited to eat, attend classes and a few social and union business calls.

 

[MCI transplant]

MCI TRANSPLANT:

Somewhat of a the same scenario exists art JFK between the AAers and the TWAers. You are right, there are two sides to every story.

The JFK TWAers have been discussing their lawsuit since they started arriving at JFK 4 years ago. When they get one more assignment than the other guy, they run to human resources that they are being treated unfairly.

Let me tell you how unfairly TWAers are being treated. Last week a group of TWAers hit an aircraft causing damage while towing into hangar.

GUESS WHAT?
NO INVESTIGATION, BOI, REPRIMAND,,,,,NOTHING!
DO YOU KNOW WHY, MCI TRANSPLANT?????????????????

BECAUSE THERE ARE ALREAYD LAWSUITS FILED WITH HUMAN RESORCRES AND THE EEOC AGAINST AA BY FORMER TWAERS ABOUT UNFAIR TREATMENT. AND AA DOESN'T WANT TO ROCK THE BOAT ANY FURTHER!
THEY DON'T CLAIM DISCRIMINATION WHEN A FORMER TWA SUPERVISOR TAKES THE COMPANY VAN AND PICKS THEM UP AT LGA AFTER THERE WEEKLY STL COMMUTE! AND THEN HE SIGNS THEM IN AFTER MIDNIGHT..
YEP, TWO SIDES TO EVERY STORY!

[post="284697"][/post]​

<_< You mean those lawsuits are still in the works? 😉 And yes, I do realise there are two sides to every story! And I'm not just talking the seniority issue! But what's really sad is aa could have avoided a lot of this! They discriminated ( segragated) us from day one! By assigning all exTWA employees with a payroll number that starts with the number "6", forever labeling us in all aa transactions! It's like beeing branded with a large TWA on our forehead! :huh: