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Who wants a merger with US?

Do AA employees want to merge with US Airways?


  • Total voters
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WT, you left out the DCA factor and its value. While US did come up short on the number end of slots, they put more value on the DC markets revenue potential vs LGA. No doubts that NY is valuable as well, but it has more low cost competition than DCA does. The company must feel that they can generate more revenue with less aircraft in DCA. Keep in mind that US has next to no marketshare at the other NYC area airports anyway. Should a merger with AA take place, they will have a strong DCA operation, along with a fair share of LGA again, and JFK. With UA at EWR and DL at LGA & JFK, there is only so much that can be done in that area anyway. I think that it was a good move by US if this was the plan all along.
I don't see any point in having all of the top 3 focusing so much all in the same metropolitan area.
 
Should a merger with AA take place, they will have a strong DCA operation
Why would the regulators let a US/AA combination have more DCA slots than they allowed US to have in the slot swap deal?

Jim
 
Why would the regulators let a US/AA combination have more DCA slots than they allowed US to have in the slot swap deal?

Jim
Agreed. I assume that a combination between US and AA would have to divest at least as many DCA slots as AA currently holds, as the number currently held by US is the upper limit.

At LGA, I assume that AA and US could combine and not have to give up any LGA slots, as the total would still be well below the total held by DL.
 
But I have also said that US doesn't have what it takes to compete long term in the US airline industry - but since Parker himself goes back and forth every other month saying the same thing, I'm not sure why you should think it a surprise when someone outside the company mentions it.
I noticed you dropped your tag line about "the whole truth will always come out". Now I know why.

Parker does not say what you are attributing to him, never has.
 
Yes he did approve it with the exception that the UCC could accept an offer that was preferable. Go read it.

Nope, that's not what the order extending the exclusivity period said.

ORDERED that the Motion is granted as provided herein; and it is further

ORDERED that, pursuant to section 1121(d) of the Bankruptcy Code, the Debtors’ Exclusive Filing Period in which to file a chapter 11 plan is extended to and including September 28, 2012; and it is further

ORDERED that, pursuant to section 1121(d) of the Bankruptcy Code, the Debtors’ Exclusive Solicitation Period in which to solicit acceptances of their chapter 11 plan is extended to and including November 29, 2012; and it is further

ORDERED that the extensions of the Exclusive Periods granted herein are
without prejudice to such further requests that may be made pursuant to section 1121(d) of the
Bankruptcy Code by the Debtors or any party in interest, for cause shown, upon notice and a
hearing, provided, however, that should the UCC file a motion to shorten the Debtors’ Exclusive
Periods, the Debtors shall bear the burden in accordance with 11 U.S.C. § 1121(d) to show cause
to retain or further extend such Exclusive Periods
; and it is further

ORDERED that this Court shall retain jurisdiction to hear and determine all matters arising from or related to this Order.


The part I bolded probably has you confused. The UCC can file a motion asking the Judge to shorten the exclusivity period. If that happens there will most likely be a hearing with AA having the burden of proof to show that the exclusivity period should be retained or extended.

But if the UCC doesn't file that motion and the Judge approve it, AA retains the exclusive right to file a POR.

The UCC can't just accept another offer during the exclusivity period.

Jim
 
Why would the regulators let a US/AA combination have more DCA slots than they allowed US to have in the slot swap deal?

Jim

Jim, what percentage of the marketshare does DL now have at LGA?
Also, what percentage does US & AA have respectively at DCA at this time?
With all of the consolidation that has/is taking place, there are less airlines which leads to an increase in markershare per airline at any given city.
I know that UA/CO gave some up at EWR to pacify SWA, but I believe that they still have in the area of 60% there. Any given airline is going to be the dominating carrier in a particular city.
 
Nope, that's not what the order extending the exclusivity period said.

ORDERED that the Motion is granted as provided herein; and it is further

ORDERED that, pursuant to section 1121(d) of the Bankruptcy Code, the Debtors’ Exclusive Filing Period in which to file a chapter 11 plan is extended to and including September 28, 2012; and it is further

ORDERED that, pursuant to section 1121(d) of the Bankruptcy Code, the Debtors’ Exclusive Solicitation Period in which to solicit acceptances of their chapter 11 plan is extended to and including November 29, 2012; and it is further

ORDERED that the extensions of the Exclusive Periods granted herein are
without prejudice to such further requests that may be made pursuant to section 1121(d) of the
Bankruptcy Code by the Debtors or any party in interest, for cause shown, upon notice and a
hearing, provided, however, that should the UCC file a motion to shorten the Debtors’ Exclusive
Periods, the Debtors shall bear the burden in accordance with 11 U.S.C. § 1121(d) to show cause
to retain or further extend such Exclusive Periods
; and it is further

ORDERED that this Court shall retain jurisdiction to hear and determine all matters arising from or related to this Order.


The part I bolded probably has you confused. The UCC can file a motion asking the Judge to shorten the exclusivity period. If that happens there will most likely be a hearing with AA having the burden of proof to show that the exclusivity period should be retained or extended.

But if the UCC doesn't file that motion and the Judge approve it, AA retains the exclusive right to file a POR.

The UCC can't just accept another offer during the exclusivity period.

Jim
 
BoeingBoy Honey Bun, I can read. I'm not like the rest of your friends. Tell me why the judge would not agree to an offer that was acceptable to the majority of creditors? Is big old AMR going to spit up something better.Come on big boy you can use big words, you would be surprised what I can do with an advanced degree besides serve Coke. You can even use legal terms, I am very familiar with them. I understand if you aren't used to using them in your circle. No shame.
 
What seniority system does American use for the ramp? Does American have parttimers? If you do, what seniority system do the parttimers use?

Rogue.....
 
What seniority system does American use for the ramp? Does American have parttimers? If you do, what seniority system do the parttimers use?

Rogue.....


Please don't tell me that you came trolling over here in search of your doh beef at US.......
 
What seniority system does American use for the ramp? Does American have parttimers? If you do, what seniority system do the parttimers use?

Rogue.....


We use one basically.Your date of hire is your occupational seniority date.You will however see a difference if you transfer from a different title group,then you will retain your company seniority but occupational seniority will be the day you actually start in that group.

A few years ago we had a bunch of guys come over from Eagle, they kept their AMR company seniority (Which is used for pay and vacation bidding purposes) but their occupational seniority in Title III Fleet Service was their actual start date with AA.Occupational seniority is what is used for shift bidding.

P/T or F/T makes no difference, bidding is by occupational seniority.We've had 15 year part timers decide they want to go full time and they end up on the full time bid where their 15 years of occupational seniority puts them.Part and Full time have separate bids.
 
BoeingBoy Honey Bun, I can read.
Sweet cheeks, how about pointing out where the Judge ordered that the UCC can ignore the exclusivity period and just accept what it feels is a better offer then....

Jim
 
The following statement about consolidation and the potential impact on US comes right out of US' most recent annual report

"Additionally, as mergers and other forms of industry consolidation, including antitrust immunity grants take place, we might or might not be included as a participant. Depending on which carriers combine and which assets, if any, are sold or otherwise transferred to other carriers in connection with such combinations, our competitive position relative to the post-combination carriers or other carriers that acquire such assets could be harmed. In addition, as carriers combine through traditional mergers or antitrust immunity grants, their route networks will grow and that growth will result in greater overlap with our network, which in turn could result in lower overall market share and revenues for us. Such consolidation is not limited to the U.S., but could include further consolidation among international carriers in Europe and elsewhere."


Jim, what percentage of the marketshare does DL now have at LGA?
Also, what percentage does US & AA have respectively at DCA at this time?
With all of the consolidation that has/is taking place, there are less airlines which leads to an increase in markershare per airline at any given city.
I know that UA/CO gave some up at EWR to pacify SWA, but I believe that they still have in the area of 60% there. Any given airline is going to be the dominating carrier in a particular city.
wings,
since your question remains unanswered, I'll address it.
.
The DOJ has been far less concerned about marketshare than access to limit access airports after a merger.
With respect to slot holdings post slot swap, DL now holds about 47% of the slots at LGA, US holds right at 50% at DCA, and UA has 70% of the slots at EWR, the highest percentage of slots at a slot controlled airport... although note that CO already held close to that amount and they ended up losing a fairly high percentage of the slots UA already held at EWR- don't remember the actual number of premerger UA flights at EWR (and don't have time to look it up) but UA divested 18 flights at EWR.... so the primary issue is with access by other carriers post merger.
AA and DL each have about 15% of the slots at DCA - very likely far in advance of what the DOJ would allow.
.
Thus, it is likely true that there would likely be no issues w/ US/AA in NYC, but since US is already at the 50% max as a result of the slot deal and which was of concern to the DOJ, it is highly unlikely that US would be able to retain any slots from AA at DCA, meaning US would likely have to fund AA's entire operation at DCA using slots US already holds.
.
But let's look at the question of revenue share- which is a different metric and more meaningful than slot holdings or flights because it reflects the ability of companies to maximize the revenue production ability of their flights... carrying people and operating flights are secondary to generating revenue
.
IN NYC (the 3 major airports), based on the latest DOT data, UA has about a 30% revenue share followed by DL at 23, AA at 16%, and B6 at 12%. It isn't known how DL's revenue share will increase based on the slot swap but it is very likley they will pick up a couple more share points - 25% is not at all unreasonably. Thus, AA plus B6 could still surpass DL even after the slot swap but US/AA does little to improve the combined airline's position in NYC relative to UA and DL.
IN New England, AA/US combined could surpass DL as the largest revenue carrier by about 20%.
In the Southeast, which includes the Carolinas down to Florida, DL has a 31% share..... UA/CO has about 17%. AA/US would have about 26% since AA and US are fairly similarly sized (AA being slightly larger in revenue because of the higher value MIA hub).
In the southwest, UA/CO and AA are tied for #1 right now so adding US in would give AA/US the lead.
.
In the midwest, the Rockies, and on the west coast (CA, OR, WA), AA/US would still be number 3 behind UA and DL (in all 3 regions).... some people don't realize that DL has the largest revenue share in the midwest at 31% because of the strength of PMNW's dual hubs and DL is about 25% larger than AA on the west coast even though AA is larger at LAX.
.

Thus, AA/US would combined be stronger on the east coast as a region and there is increased strength in several regions - but neither airline adds much to the other in some of the most competitive markets - NYC, CHI, or LAX.
.
Because AA/US are not strong in the same cities....the question then becomes whether a merger that increases presence in a region is really worth it if it still does not push AA/US to become the largest carrier in a city or region....
.
And talking about combined market shares for AA/US is meaningless unless you consider that some capacity will have to come out of the combined entity in order to bring AA/US' RASM up to par with DL and UA since US has repeatedly noted that it has a revenue disadvantage.
 
Sweet cheeks, how about pointing out where the Judge ordered that the UCC can ignore the exclusivity period and just accept what it feels is a better offer then....

Jim
HAve you been reading anything this AM? And I am not saying ignore, I am sure it will be a petition, as everything has to be in court.
 

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