Why Are So Many Bags Not Able To Fly On Erjs

[robbedagain]

well today at my station we left at least 20 or so bags including a few carry-ons that were brought back to the front of the flight to clt. I am curious as to whether or not this incompetent mgmt thieves looked at it from this angle that we would lose customers this way. our only clt flt left late because we had to take 7 bags off
of the mesa erj-145 and a grand total of checked bags numbered somewhere in the teens to at least 20 plus a few of the carry ons had to be taken back to the front of the airlplane. why is it that the erj cant handle so many bags when the conditions are cool and light rain? remember this is the mesa or as i call it meesy

 

[rvolkcpa]

We have friends who flew from Newark to Orlando before Christmas. They were booked on an ERJ from EWR to PHL and weren't boarded because of weight problems with the aircraft. They were taken by taxi from EWR to PHL. Their luggage stayed on the ERJ.

Our friends usually fly CO from Newark. This ERJ incident didn't help improve their image of US Airways.
🙁

 

[Hope777]

It is my understanding that the EJR is more restrictive then the CRJ. If this is the case, WHY did we purchase both and not just the CRJ? BTW, the EWR-PHL always leaves bags off. We normally put certain cites bags thru CLT just to keep all the revenue on US.

 

[USFlyer]

US did purchase the CRJ-200 for PSA. The EMB-170 is a wholly different bird than the ERJ-145 is, from what I understand anyway.

 

[Bear96]

They were taken by taxi from EWR to PHL. Their luggage stayed on the ERJ.

Isn't this a violation of the positive passenger bag match rule?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Not now that "100%" of checked baggage is screened.

Jim

 

[tadjr]

They were taken by taxi from EWR to PHL. Their luggage stayed on the ERJ.

Isn't this a violation of the positive passenger bag match rule?

EWR-PHL is not an international flight so there is no positive bag match rule in place as long as the bag has been screened.

 

[delldude]

once again that uncanny management style flashes through like a bolt of lightning .

 

[USFlyer]

Only technically EWR missed the deadline yet again. ;-)

 

[nrthvlle]

🙁 Positive bag match concerns miss the whole point of the problem. The RJ is supposed to be the wave of the future. The expense and customer service of bags left behind should be unacceptable.
My station has 1 flight a day to a hub (PIT) with an RJ. The normal load is 46 passengers with 47 bags. Think about it...that's one bag per passenger to a hub. It doesn't work. We leave bags or passengers behind on a daily basis. I have to assume this is acceptable as there has been no significant concern noted on the part of "Management"!!

 

[tadjr]

We leave bags or passengers behind on a daily basis. I have to assume this is acceptable as there has been no significant concern noted on the part of "Management"!!

From my dealings and concerns about this happening on the Beeches for quite a few months now, it appears that it isnt really a concern of managements. I understand they've been advised of the problem from several angles and nothing has happened as of yet with the busy season coming up. Guess we just need to leave off the right bag to get someones attention.

 

[dashflyer]

This will probably be like comparing apples to oranges but here's how it works out on a Dash 8.

There are three models operating in the U system. The 100, 200, and 300. The 100 being the most weight restricted of the 3.

About the 3 months ago the FAA issued a deadline to all Air Carriers that their weight and balance program must be reviewed and passenger and baggage weights will have to be increased. I believe this was primarily due to the Air Midwest crash in Charlotte (overloading the aircraft).

At Piedmont the pax weights used to be 165 lbs in the summer and 170 in the winter. Pax bags weighed 25 lbs regardless of whether it was a checked bag or carry-on. Most airline weight and balances are done based on averages. Most people don't feel too comfortable stepping onto a scale before boarding an airplane. 🙄

With the new weights that have been instituted each pax now weighs 190 lbs year around and each bag weighs 30 lbs. Not every airline is the same. Each was required to submit their weight and balance program to the FAA for approval. (Seems kind of strange that everyone can't get together to say that each pax weighs X amount and each bag weighs X amount and apply that to every airline.)

Every aircraft is certified by the FAA to carry a certain amount of weight. How we get to that weight is by taking the weight of the empty airplane and add the weight of the pax and bags. This gives us a number which is important called the zero fuel weight. When we add the fuel we get the gross takeoff weight. An airplane can be limited by either the zero fuel weight or gross takeoff weight.

For the Dash 8 100 model the Maximum gross takeoff weight is 34,500 lbs. The zero fuel weight is 31,300 or 31, 400 lbs depending on the model. For the Dash 8 200 the zero fuel weight is 32,400 lbs and the max takeoff weight is 36,300 lbs. For the Dash 300 the zero fuel weight is 39,500 lbs and the max takeoff weight is 43,000 lbs.

So how does all this work? We can use the Dash 8 100 as an example.

Let's say its a nice day outside in PHL and we're flying to HPN (White Plains). The weather in HPN is nice too. There are 37 paxs who are waiting to go. The ramp has loaded 50 bags in the baggage compartment. Each person now weighs 190 lbs and their bags 30 lbs. So total, that equals 8,530 lbs. If the airplane weighs 23,580 lbs empty and we add the 8,530 lbs we get 32,110 lbs. This is our zero fuel weight. In the 100 the limitation is 31, 400 lbs. So we've exceeded the limitation by 710 lbs. This means we have to take either people or bags off the airplane.

If we take this same situation and use the old pax and bag weights here's what we get. 37 paxs would equal 6290 lbs (170X37) plus 1250 lbs of bags (50X25) equals 7,540 lbs. If we take the weight of the airplane (23,580) plus the weight of the pax and bags (7,540) we get 31,120 lbs. This is less than the maximum zero fuel weight of 31,400 lbs. At this point we could add 3,380 lbs of fuel which would bring us to our max allowable takeoff weight of 34,500 lbs.

Here's a question though, if the airplane took off just fine with the old weights, why did we change them? I'll let someone else answer that because I really don't have a good answer.

This is probably way more than anyone wanted to know. There are a lot of other variables that I haven't mentioned (MEL limitations, weather at destination, etc.) that affect these calculations. But this should give you a basic idea of why paxs and bags sometimes get left behind.

 

[robbedagain]

I know that some of the pax that fly on us outta my station have bitterly complained about seeing their bags stay behind only to arrive either late on us or early on another airline! I just wonder how many folks we are losing at this rate?
this happens most of the time on our only rj service to clt daily!

 

[dash8ter]

So how does all this work? We can use the Dash 8 100 as an example.

Let's say its a nice day outside in PHL and we're flying to HPN (White Plains). The weather in HPN is nice too. There are 37 paxs who are waiting to go. The ramp has loaded 50 bags in the baggage compartment. Each person now weighs 190 lbs and their bags 30 lbs. So total, that equals 8,530 lbs. If the airplane weighs 23,580 lbs empty and we add the 8,530 lbs we get 32,110 lbs. This is our zero fuel weight. In the 100 the limitation is 31, 400 lbs. So we've exceeded the limitation by 710 lbs. This means we have to take either people or bags off the airplane.

If we take this same situation and use the old pax and bag weights here's what we get. 37 paxs would equal 6290 lbs (170X37) plus 1250 lbs of bags (50X25) equals 7,540 lbs. If we take the weight of the airplane (23,580) plus the weight of the pax and bags (7,540) we get 31,120 lbs. This is less than the maximum zero fuel weight of 31,400 lbs. At this point we could add 3,380 lbs of fuel which would bring us to our max allowable takeoff weight of 34,500 lbs.

Here's a question though, if the airplane took off just fine with the old weights, why did we change them? I'll let someone else answer that because I really don't have a good answer.

Could they ever recertify an aircraft to operate at a higher maximum weight limitation? Or is that way too difficult... Just curious

 

[bandit1]

The max takeoff weight is determined by the manufacture to allow for a safe take off on 50pct of the avail power in case an engine is lost on takeoff. Therefore based on that with both engines operating properly you probably have the capability to carry more weight but because of the reason above there is a margin of safety built in.