Just so ya know labor cost with most all companies is one of the top 2 costs to a company. And I've seen other letters about this same talk before with SWA over the years. This is not new news but just to keep us informed especially when alot of contracts are up for ratification. The pilots, FA, MX and I believe the rampers and the cleaners are going on 2 years of trying to get there old one ratified.
Why don’t you SWA mechanics just be honest?
- Thread starter xUT
- Start date
Just so ya know labor cost with most all companies is one of the top 2 costs to a company. And I've seen other letters about this same talk before with SWA over the years. This is not new news but just to keep us informed especially when alot of contracts are up for ratification. The pilots, FA, MX and I believe the rampers and the cleaners are going on 2 years of trying to get there old one ratified.
Yea we hear this mumbo-jumbo every time contract time is coming up. We have heard this even when we recieved the large contract. Thx to the NWA AMFA mechanics for setting the bar to go after. It's the norm for the company to put out this kind of info. as well as throughout the contract, at this time. The company is also using the AA BK as the excuss to kick off this "beware of cost" campain, when in fact there are alot of contracts in the works as well as coming due in 2012.
That letter from Gary was hot off the heels if the AA bankruptcy announcement.. It was simply meant to keep people productive and in line with the "more with less" initiative the company has been perpetuating the last couple of years.
wnbubbleboy
Veteran
It will be interesting to see how Southwest fares in the environment the industry seems to be evolving into. The employees of the airline have been living the good life for so long, it is hard to predict how they might react to some hardship. In the end, Kelly knows the airline needs to reign in costs to stay competitive. Now we just have to wait and see how they do it.
Yes the good life.....worked the Ramp in 95 a memo went out NOT to wear your uniform to the Plasma bank.....
Yes the good life.....worked the Ramp in 95 a memo went out NOT to wear your uniform to the Plasma bank.....
You disgruntled legay guys kill me. Im gonna break it down for ya! First of all, if you werent paying attention: Single type fleet buisness model. I know, I know , but what about the 717's, IF , and beilieve me thats a BIG IF, we keep them they were purchased with spares and tooling. Do any of you knuckle heads know what it cost to facilitate spares and tooling for a fleet type?? let alone 4, 5, 6, hell 10 different types of aircraft??? what about training , and cross training?? Sure the legacies have Europe, which right now aint sayin much , Aisa is a little better, but everyone knows the emerging markets in latin america is where the big profits are gonna come from near to mid term. Sure is nice we bought those air tran latin america routes... oh yeah , what about Alaska's most profitable routes, ummmmm, Hawaii, yeah we'll be going there in march. Now lets go onto wasting more money (legacies) Why in the hell would you ever have MX doing receive and dispatch, or de-ice? there are so many places these companies got fat and lazy at its hard to target one area but theres a start. I would also like to adress why the SWA AMT's feel there seniority means a little more. I worked at AirTran, and Im here to tell you there was no probation to speak of. PERIOD. youre hired come on in. When I decided to seek a better career for myself and hired in with SWA probation was a serious thing, people got fired, REGULARLY. you were hanging it out leaving a known quantity behind. So dont try to sell me your happy horse s*%t about its all the same , because buddy, IT AINT. EVERY SINGLE MECH WHO WAS WORTH A S&^T LEFT AT at my station in a mass exodus around 98/99. leaving behind those that couldnt , or didnt want to put the effort in to better their careers. Now to adress the competition will become alot stiffer in the future, absolutely true! however once again look at the numbers. American has the highest seat mile cost among us carriers, 14.6 cents. 18% higher than the industry average of 12.3 cents. If Americans "reorginazation" achives a 7 percentage point reduction , which is what was qouted after bankruptcy. there seat mile cost would decline to 13.3 cents making them more efficient than its legacy peers, but still more expensive than low cost and hybrid carriers SWA and Alaska. Without complete restructuring , and fleet steamlining, Legacies are destined to struggle for a very long time. Quit being digruntled, an try being honest with yourself.
OP
Xut, its not your fault that the company you worked for didnt adjust the buisness model as the industry changed. I am glad you free'd yourself thoughand pushed away. I see so many legacy guys that are so ingrained with the woes of mis-management, and poor buisness decisions, that they are just bitter, no matter what. Truly sad to see. I respect the fact that the A&P's over the last 60 years have fought hard to bring wages and work rules to help protect us! The bottom line is if your at a company with an outdated buisness model, and the management refuses to address the issue, the road ahead will be bumpy. The glamourous days of "the magic of flying" are DEAD. Its transportation, PERIOD. LUV made it affordable. I love the ads UAL runs trying to breathe life into there product. What a bunch of hot air. Kinda like ESOP, yeah more like Aesops fables...... Anyway sorry you had to endure all the s*&t sandwiches, hope this day finds you in a happier place!
I used to have mixed feelings about seniority integration. As in the AA/TWA scenario, who acquired who? Airlines are not friends but mortal enemy's trying to not only take the others customers but run them out of business. So to the victor belong the spoils, including seniority.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #56
No ####
Probably me more than you...
You are now enjoying the fruits of the legacies. When UA started, there were no MROs to outsource to. When I first hired on at the Lazy'U I was impressed at the level of detail of maintenance performed, in-house and in the US.
Everything was 'created' in-house from seats to the flight deck, HMV's, Painting, etc...
When we did HMV's we ripped out everything, inspected, repaired and put it all back together like it was new, all with in-house labor.
Some of the maintenance programs you use today are influenced by 'legacies'.
The 'creation' of the B777 had a lot of UA input into the design and function as we were the flagship carrier.
UA used to be a leader in ARINC and many industry committees and engineering steering committees.
UA used to have STC and SAS authority to modify commercial aircraft with FAA oversight.
All while paying exemplary pay and benefits.
Now, not so much.
Fortunately, I have enjoyed first class service from numerous locations, so I don't #### too much.
SFO-ICN first class is not a hard pill to swallow...
UA was a 'job' that worked out well for me.
Absolutely! Just as it is a job. You lucked out and SWA hired you.
Nothing more or nothing less.
???
I am in a happier place, hope you will be where I am when you retire.
Take Care,
B) xUT
"Why don’t you SWA mechanics just be honest?"
One final note, here Im gonna be honest, as far as AT mechanics seniority being worth the same as SWA's, when they pass a meaningfull probation, OK.
On the legacies being where they are, MISMANAGEMENT, along with blatant overspending, and poor adjustments to a changing industry, along with MANY poor desicions. On "the fruits of the legacies" LOL the "legacies" tried their damndest to keep us down, and failed miserably. As far as how much neato cool stuff you all did int the IMC and san fran, thats great except it wasnt a sustainable plan, now my friends are layed off from UAL and at AAR or other 145's or out of aviation all together... Anyway thanks for the laughs and the ridiculously funny post title!! go have another hot toddy in first class! And most importantly be honest with yourself! Gotta go move some jets.
One final note, here Im gonna be honest, as far as AT mechanics seniority being worth the same as SWA's, when they pass a meaningfull probation, OK.
On the legacies being where they are, MISMANAGEMENT, along with blatant overspending, and poor adjustments to a changing industry, along with MANY poor desicions. On "the fruits of the legacies" LOL the "legacies" tried their damndest to keep us down, and failed miserably. As far as how much neato cool stuff you all did int the IMC and san fran, thats great except it wasnt a sustainable plan, now my friends are layed off from UAL and at AAR or other 145's or out of aviation all together... Anyway thanks for the laughs and the ridiculously funny post title!! go have another hot toddy in first class! And most importantly be honest with yourself! Gotta go move some jets.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #58
That is your absolute opinion (as is mine). Nothing wrong with that but I digress back to AMFA’s intention’s that seniority being portable. You can’t have it both ways, it is either portable or not.
And restrictive union contracts, that you guys don’t have…yet! Learn from the mistakes. If you want to stay ‘nimble’ don’t build legacy infrastructure into your contracts.
Of course, ‘The Legacies’ tried to maintain their market share, just as LUV tries to capture it. You know, business N’Chit. What would you expect otherwise? It’s great to be proud of your company, hell we all are/were, but in the ‘end game’ you are just an employee, just like I ‘was’!
It ‘was’ a sustainable plan on a level playing field. Once LUV sent their HMV to Aeroman the bar was set. To compete with LUV, we had to outsource to third world countries ‘just like you’! OK now we are on par as the ‘legacies’ dropped employees and outsourced to your level. Now what is the bar?
Look in the mirror.
Glad you can see the humor…
I don’t fly anymore, flying is crap!
No Problem!
You guys still do pushbacks…
B) xUT
ThirdSeatHero
Veteran
You are woefully mis-informed if you honestly believe that a seniority integration arbitration can drag out for "years".
I suggest you read the McCaskill-Bond Act.
No. I suggest you get more informed. There's more involved with the SWA and AT integration if and when it goes to arbitration. Once in arbitration there will be many more other items that must be worked out before getting to the final arbitrators decision. Can't get any deeper than that, but in fact, this will get dragged out for well into 3-7 years. Just look at the US and AW pilots and F/A's, they are still going on 7-8 years and the pilots are represented by the same law firm as the AMFA mechanics at SWA. Yes the McCaskill-Bond act says arbitration will happen within 90 days, but you need to also consider all the other leagal aspects that must be ironed out before the arbitrator rules. Stay tuned and learn.
