Why don’t you SWA mechanics just be honest?

[buscador]

No. I suggest you get more informed. There's more involved with the SWA and AT integration if and when it goes to arbitration. Once in arbitration there will be many more other items that must be worked out before getting to the final arbitrators decision. Can't get any deeper than that, but in fact, this will get dragged out for well into 3-7 years. Just look at the US and AW pilots and F/A's, they are still going on 7-8 years and the pilots are represented by the same law firm as the AMFA mechanics at SWA. Yes the McCaskill-Bond act says arbitration will happen within 90 days, but you need to also consider all the other leagal aspects that must be ironed out before the arbitrator rules. Stay tuned and learn.

Exactly, well said Swamt

and I heard they are changing the McCaskill-Bond name too,, McCaskill-just another excuse for liberal govt to steal Capitilism and hand out money/seniority to a weaker employee group-Bond

The first choice to a new name was just,, Stealing everything one group worked for and handing it out to those who didnt work for it, but the welfare dept got upset as it infringed on their status quo and thought the two would be easily confused,,

now these are just a rumors at this point so stay tuned

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

No. I suggest you get more informed. There's more involved with the SWA and AT integration if and when it goes to arbitration. Once in arbitration there will be many more other items that must be worked out before getting to the final arbitrators decision. Can't get any deeper than that, but in fact, this will get dragged out for well into 3-7 years. Just look at the US and AW pilots and F/A's, they are still going on 7-8 years and the pilots are represented by the same law firm as the AMFA mechanics at SWA. Yes the McCaskill-Bond act says arbitration will happen within 90 days, but you need to also consider all the other leagal aspects that must be ironed out before the arbitrator rules. Stay tuned and learn.

So help me out here then...

Are you saying that arbitration between the pilots at UA & AW has been going on for 7 to 8 Y-E-A-R-S?

 

[Kev3188]

No. I suggest you get more informed. There's more involved with the SWA and AT integration if and when it goes to arbitration. Once in arbitration there will be many more other items that must be worked out before getting to the final arbitrators decision. Can't get any deeper than that, but in fact, this will get dragged out for well into 3-7 years. Just look at the US and AW pilots and F/A's, they are still going on 7-8 years and the pilots are represented by the same law firm as the AMFA mechanics at SWA. Yes the McCaskill-Bond act says arbitration will happen within 90 days, but you need to also consider all the other leagal aspects that must be ironed out before the arbitrator rules. Stay tuned and learn.

Actually, there *is* more to it. The US/HP pilots agreed to binding arbitration. When the East pilots decided they didn't like the arbitrator's settlement, they decided that they didn't need to honor their own previous decision, formed USAPA, and the rest, as they say, is history...

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Actually, there *is* more to it. The US/HP pilots agreed to binding arbitration. When the East pilots decided they didn't like the arbitrator's settlement, they decided that they didn't need to honor their own previous decision, formed USAPA, and the rest, as they say, is history...

Thats what I'm trying to get these SWA mechs to look at.

On this and other boards they keep citing the US-AW pilots situation as an ongoing arbitration, which it is NOT. The Nicolau award came out in 2007.

Any arbitration between SWA & AT (minus an extension from BOTH parties) by law must be completed within 90 days.

 

[Swadl]

Thats what I'm trying to get these SWA mechs to look at.

On this and other boards they keep citing the US-AW pilots situation as an ongoing arbitration, which it is NOT. The Nicolau award came out in 2007.

Any arbitration between SWA & AT (minus an extension from BOTH parties) by law must be completed within 90 days.

There is more two it! Our (SWA) has an LOA that basically prevents an arbitrator's decision for intergration. IBT will have to take AMFA to federal court to get the LOA removed before an arbitrator can make a decision. And I know that there is no time frame by law in federal court to get our LOA removed. So once the LOA is removed by federal court then they can proceed to Arbatration. So I forsee an Arbatration ruling in 3-7 years. This info is not me making Sh$& up but is direct info from the lawyer. Will it cost AMFA money? YES but then again it's our money to spend!

 

[AvTech04]

Thats what I'm trying to get these SWA mechs to look at.

On this and other boards they keep citing the US-AW pilots situation as an ongoing arbitration, which it is NOT. The Nicolau award came out in 2007.

Any arbitration between SWA & AT (minus an extension from BOTH parties) by law must be completed within 90 days.

There is more two it! Our (SWA) has an LOA that basically prevents an arbitrator's decision for intergration. IBT will have to take AMFA to federal court to get the LOA removed before an arbitrator can make a decision. And I know that there is no time frame by law in federal court to get our LOA removed. So once the LOA is removed by federal court then they can proceed to Arbatration. So I forsee an Arbatration ruling in 3-7 years. This info is not me making Sh$& up but is direct info from the lawyer. Will it cost AMFA money? YES but then again it's our money to spend!

So why not vote out the LOA if this proposal doesn't pass?? I mean, it sounds to me like AMFA is trying to purposely sabotage the integration. And if mechaincs end up on the street because AMFA and it's members at SWA were purposely and illegally stopping the integration from movin forward, then SWA and AMFA have a lot more problems then just a little bit of seniority. You're going to pay those mechanics for siting at home and accruing seniority while the lawsuit is settled or awarded... then, when the suit is won or settled, former AT mechanics will be forced back into their original position and station with DOH and any accrued seniority.. Especially since its so easy to prove that SWA and AMFA came to that LOA illegally and it directly forced us to any future circumstance that may happen to the AT mechanics.

Thats a clever move you guys did, but it's ultimately going to bite you in the ass! That LOA has put the damper on this integration and I'm personally tired of hearing about it. It's time someone stepped up and contacted the NLRB and NMB and informed them of the situation AMFA and SWA has put us in.

 

[swamt]

So help me out here then...

Are you saying that arbitration between the pilots at UA & AW has been going on for 7 to 8 Y-E-A-R-S?

No. Sorry bout that. Not saying they aqre still in arbitration. Just stating they are still working off of 2 different contracts, after filing for arbitration. Still not under one group. Alot of folks out there think that once you file for arbitration that 3 months later they will be on our contract and start making the pay and bennies that we make in 3 months. This is way off from the truth. There is way more involved in order for the final arbitraded ruling to become effective. One of them is a huge leagal issue that will in fact take min 3 years to clear up. Then after all leagal issues are handled and done with, there are more items that have to happen in order for the arbitrators final decision to take place. I am only refering to the pilots as they going thru the same thing that we will all have to go thru if/when this goes to arbitration. Only using them as an example, as their situation is about as close to ours as it gets, as well as they are represented by same firm, which has termendous amounts of experience in these areas. Does that clear it up a little better?? Again the pilots are not still in arbitration, but it is seen by them that the entire process as a whole can and will in fact take many, many years as AMFA's attorney's have stated many times at the table in front of all 3 party's involved.

 

[swa1963]

So why not vote out the LOA if this proposal doesn't pass?? I mean, it sounds to me like AMFA is trying to purposely sabotage the integration. And if mechaincs end up on the street because AMFA and it's members at SWA were purposely and illegally stopping the integration from movin forward, then SWA and AMFA have a lot more problems then just a little bit of seniority. You're going to pay those mechanics for siting at home and accruing seniority while the lawsuit is settled or awarded... then, when the suit is won or settled, former AT mechanics will be forced back into their original position and station with DOH and any accrued seniority.. Especially since its so easy to prove that SWA and AMFA came to that LOA illegally and it directly forced us to any future circumstance that may happen to the AT mechanics.

Thats a clever move you guys did, but it's ultimately going to bite you in the ass! That LOA has put the damper on this integration and I'm personally tired of hearing about it. It's time someone stepped up and contacted the NLRB and NMB and informed them of the situation AMFA and SWA has put us in.

Maybe Southwest will go the bankruptcy route like all the other airlines and get all these non-productive worthless agreements tossed out.

Question? Can we stop SOC process? Or does it go on with or without us participating?

 

[swamt]

Swadl, easy on the info. As you stated above leave the other two items quiet. This was why my all my post were vague. But since your post it looks like they are starting to get it. We have no control guys, once this goes to arbitration, it's all in the attorney's hands, not the memberships at that point, unless all the party's come to another T/A prior to arbitration, kind of like the SWA and AT pilots did.

 

[Swadl]

Swamt- I understand about easy on the info, but what I said is common knowledge that there Comte already knew about. And I thought there membership knew about. AT mechanics need to relize that we are not asking for much except a small cut in there seniority, a one time hit! I don't think it's much to ask for considering what they are getting in this deal. I say keep this same deal we have and remove the articles 9&10. And I still think they are getting a better deal.

 

[swa1963]

Swamt- I understand about easy on the info, but what I said is common knowledge that there Comte already knew about. And I thought there membership knew about. AT mechanics need to relize that we are not asking for much except a small cut in there seniority, a one time hit! I don't think it's much to ask for considering what they are getting in this deal. I say keep this same deal we have and remove the articles 9&10. And I still think they are getting a better deal.

I see we have lots of CHUMPS around here who drank the whole pitcher of the AMFA Kool-aid because its what they want to hear.
we won't be slowing Southwest down no matter what we do or don't do! And Air Tran Mechanics will be working on our planes like it or not! what are we going to do to stop it? Sue Southwest? Teamsters? Are we going to Quit? Walk out? NOPE!

 

[xUT]

Swadl, easy on the info. As you stated above leave the other two items quiet. This was why my all my post were vague. But since your post it looks like they are starting to get it. We have no control guys, once this goes to arbitration, it's all in the attorney's hands, not the memberships at that point, unless all the party's come to another T/A prior to arbitration, kind of like the SWA and AT pilots did.

Knowledge - Skill - Integrity. OOps...
Full disclosure, er... guess not...
Then I am told to be 'honest' with myself...
IMHO, you guys suck..DOH!
B) xUT

 

[swamt]

Swamt- I understand about easy on the info, but what I said is common knowledge that there Comte already knew about. And I thought there membership knew about. AT mechanics need to relize that we are not asking for much except a small cut in there seniority, a one time hit! I don't think it's much to ask for considering what they are getting in this deal. I say keep this same deal we have and remove the articles 9&10. And I still think they are getting a better deal.

Apparently some of them don't know. Let's just see how the vote goes and we will go from there. Maybe their not being told all scenarios that can happen. I do agree with your last sentence also.

 

[lineguy]

So why not vote out the LOA if this proposal doesn't pass?? I mean, it sounds to me like AMFA is trying to purposely sabotage the integration. And if mechaincs end up on the street because AMFA and it's members at SWA were purposely and illegally stopping the integration from movin forward, then SWA and AMFA have a lot more problems then just a little bit of seniority. You're going to pay those mechanics for siting at home and accruing seniority while the lawsuit is settled or awarded... then, when the suit is won or settled, former AT mechanics will be forced back into their original position and station with DOH and any accrued seniority.. Especially since its so easy to prove that SWA and AMFA came to that LOA illegally and it directly forced us to any future circumstance that may happen to the AT mechanics.

Thats a clever move you guys did, but it's ultimately going to bite you in the ass! That LOA has put the damper on this integration and I'm personally tired of hearing about it. It's time someone stepped up and contacted the NLRB and NMB and informed them of the situation AMFA and SWA has put us in.

I think everyone needs to calm down, stop the speculation, and wait for the votes to be counted. When the votes are counted, we can proceed from there in the appropriate manner.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

No. Sorry bout that. Not saying they aqre still in arbitration. Just stating they are still working off of 2 different contracts, after filing for arbitration. Still not under one group. Alot of folks out there think that once you file for arbitration that 3 months later they will be on our contract and start making the pay and bennies that we make in 3 months. This is way off from the truth. There is way more involved in order for the final arbitraded ruling to become effective. One of them is a huge leagal issue that will in fact take min 3 years to clear up. Then after all leagal issues are handled and done with, there are more items that have to happen in order for the arbitrators final decision to take place. I am only refering to the pilots as they going thru the same thing that we will all have to go thru if/when this goes to arbitration. Only using them as an example, as their situation is about as close to ours as it gets, as well as they are represented by same firm, which has termendous amounts of experience in these areas. Does that clear it up a little better?? Again the pilots are not still in arbitration, but it is seen by them that the entire process as a whole can and will in fact take many, many years as AMFA's attorney's have stated many times at the table in front of all 3 party's involved.

There was no clearing up involved here. I've been following the situation at USAirways since their merger with America West, and I'm quite familiar with the pilot integration situation. What I was wondering is why I keep seeing(on this board and others) SWA mechs posting that "an Arbitration will take X amount of years" when that clearly isn't the case.

Additionally it seems very few of these same SWA mechs realize that once the Arbitrator rules, even if SWA mechs stall the implementation of the award by avoiding a joint CBA in whatever manner, they themselves will not see another contract until they do accept a combined agreement.