Why there will never be a T.A.

[swamt]

Dual representation you call it. Do you think we're possibly engaged in Dual unionism?


From Wikipedia:

Dual unionism is the development of a union or political organization parallel to and within an existing labor union. In some cases, the term may refer to the situation where two unions claim the right to organize the same workers.

Dual unionism is sometimes considered to be destructive to solidarity essential to the orderly functioning of labor unions and the exercise of their power vis-a-vis the employer.

Many countries outlaw dual unionism in their national, state or local labor relations acts. Many unions also outlaw dual unionism as part of their constitutions.

However, some labor unions and political organizations advocate dual unionism as a means of survival or as a strategy for winning political power. The Industrial Workers of the World, for example, advocates dual unionism (although the behavior is called 'dual cardism').[1] Such organizations and/or unions argue that dual unionism may be compatible with the goals of the union and therefore not a hindrance to the union. Labor parties which incorporate unions into their structures and social movement unionism, it is argued[by whom?], are examples where political organizations co-exist constructively with unions.

The distinction between dual unionism and mere internal politics is often not clear. Many unions have political factions or caucuses which disagree on the policies, finances, values and goals of the union. But internal politics rarely rise to the level of dual unionism. In certain cases, where the situation is unclear, whether an action actually constitutes dual unionism must be resolved politically (e.g., by the exercise of power) within the union.

Well, there you have it. All makes sense to me now, it's "dual unionism" at its best. That explains it all. You know Rogallo, it really does look like this definition fits the situation. Question now is, is it illegal in Texas? I wouldn't think so since the gov. signed off on it, but I would still get it verified. Pretty sure some other attorneys would have spoken up about it by now. But, very interesting indeed...

 

[B737 driver]

Can you show me where anyone has agreed in writing that the IAM Members are going to be paying far more for their Medical than they do today?

Why should they support us gaining things if we don’t support them keeping things?

This idea alone is NUTS man.

And I’m not looking to outvote anyone. I’m not their enemy or their bully.

It's not about being their enemy, usually when there is a merger the surviving company union and benefits become the norm.If those two things are not going to survive the JCBA, because the American guys will not have those two items to begin with, then you use those two items Medical and the pension to gain stuff for the good of the group. Like if you can gain more work in house, you gained something for the group. Don't just give it away, even though you know it will be gone, get something for it.

 

[WeAAsles]

It's not about being their enemy, usually when there is a merger the surviving company union and benefits become the norm.If those two things are not going to survive the JCBA, because the American guys will not have those two items to begin with, then you use those two items Medical and the pension to gain stuff for the good of the group. Like if you can gain more work in house, you gained something for the group. Don't just give it away, even though you know it will be gone, get something for it.

Well of course anything that’s “modified” from our Contracts that has such huge economic value shouldn’t be just passed up on the cheap or for free.

But I also don’t agree with the notion that it has to be the minority and the items they bring to the house that necessarily should be put out for the trash.

Our Medical cost (LAA) has reached the point of ridiculous now. We have a plan now that costs for a Family over $600.00 per month that still has out of pocket expenses. And our Medical costs were born off the backs of concessions and Bankruptcies and no Caps that kept costs under control.

You know the old saying “Give in one hand, take from the other”

Any LAA guy who isn’t in this fight for better Medical costs and coverage is an absolute flake KOOK IMO.

 

[B737 driver]

Well of course anything that’s “modified” from our Contracts that has such huge economic value shouldn’t be just passed up on the cheap or for free.

But I also don’t agree with the notion that it has to be the minority and the items they bring to the house that necessarily should be put out for the trash.

Our Medical cost (LAA) has reached the point of ridiculous now. We have a plan now that costs for a Family over $600.00 per month that still has out of pocket expenses. And our Medical costs were born off the backs of concessions and Bankruptcies and no Caps that kept costs under control.

You know the old saying “Give in one hand, take from the other”

Any LAA guy who isn’t in this fight for better Medical costs and coverage is an absolute flake KOOK IMO.

What do your pilots have, same crap? There needs to be at least cost caps. It sucks when you get a raise, and the medical eats your raises.

 

[WeAAsles]

What do your pilots have, same crap? There needs to be at least cost caps. It sucks when you get a raise, and the medical eats your raises.

Pilots and upper Management can afford to pay insane prices if that’s what they choose to do. Robert Isom states that he’s also under the same plans but Robert Isom earns many many Millions of Dollars per year from AA. I really don’t think Isom gives any thought to the pennies he pays for Medical Insurance. He doesn’t even financially need it AT ALL.

Pilots and their Union Negotiate the needs of their own and don’t give any consideration to any other groups as it should be.

 

[bob@las-AA]

Well of course anything that’s “modified” from our Contracts that has such huge economic value shouldn’t be just passed up on the cheap or for free.

But I also don’t agree with the notion that it has to be the minority and the items they bring to the house that necessarily should be put out for the trash.

Our Medical cost (LAA) has reached the point of ridiculous now. We have a plan now that costs for a Family over $600.00 per month that still has out of pocket expenses. And our Medical costs were born off the backs of concessions and Bankruptcies and no Caps that kept costs under control.

You know the old saying “Give in one hand, take from the other”

Any LAA guy who isn’t in this fight for better Medical costs and coverage is an absolute flake KOOK IMO.

Talked to a guy the other day that was out for 5 years from some kind of illness, and said he absolutely loves the health care we get at LAA. If your looking to get what LUS has, go work for them, I don’t have a problem paying, so you who is claiming to be financially secure also shouldn’t feel that heavily burdened by what we pay. And for others who struggle paying for all those kids, simple, stop spreading your DNA around and strap it to your leg.

 

[WeAAsles]

Talked to a guy the other day that was out for 5 years from some kind of illness, and said he absolutely loves the health care we get at LAA. If your looking to get what LUS has, go work for them, I don’t have a problem paying, so you who is claiming to be financially secure also shouldn’t feel that heavily burdened by what we pay. And for others who struggle paying for all those kids, simple, stop spreading your DNA around and strap it to your leg.

Bob to be completely honest it’s guys like you that are making me stand more and more in opposition.

I get very stubborn against greedy little mongers.

 

[bob@las-AA]

Bob to be completely honest it’s guys like you that are making me stand more and more in opposition.

I get very stubborn against greedy little mongers.

I do have what is called empathy, you have a bleeding heart for those who give the impression that they are so overwhelmed by the cost of medical insurance, and I'm sure it really tugs at your heart strings and you wish you had a magic wand to wave all their troubles away. Well this is life, nothing comes cheep or free and the only guaranteed things in life are death and taxes. Except this little bit of sage advice, you can't change the system, and you have to adapt.

 

[WeAAsles]

I do have what is called empathy, you have a bleeding heart for those who give the impression that they are so overwhelmed by the cost of medical insurance, and I'm sure it really tugs at your heart strings and you wish you had a magic wand to wave all their troubles away. Well this is life, nothing comes cheep or free and the only guaranteed things in life are death and taxes. Except this little bit of sage advice, you can't change the system, and you have to adapt.

Actually Bob I realize right now that it’s the IAM who’s driving the car in Fleet Service. The Company is offering them nothing but concessions and they have no reason (and no pressure from their members) to pass anything on to us for a vote.

It might be a little different in Maintenance since it looks like they want more jobs that are held on the TWU side. So in Maintenance and related it could be the TWU who is driving the car and has no reason to agree to job losses.

Watching the Company play they’re game I can see they’re trying to figure out how to taylor any deals to make them just acceptable enough that we’ll pass them.

First they have to figure out how to get past those Gatekeepers. (That hasn’t been looking very good)

 

[swamt]

What do your pilots have, same crap? There needs to be at least cost caps. It sucks when you get a raise, and the medical eats your raises.

So true. And that is exactly where we will be come 2019 and beyond. All medical cost will eat up our lousy 2.2% average wages along with the COLA diluting as well. Not to mention no raise for 18 or 23 that will put us even further behind. We are in well deserve for receiving an average of 3% each and every year as it has always been in the past, good times or bad, AND co. is making and has been making record profits for many years.

 

[Rusty Hilock]

Time for LUS Folks to PAY UP for their Medical Costs just like everyone else at AAL..

 

[aintgotnotimefodat]

Time for LUS Folks to PAY UP for their Medical Costs just like everyone else at AAL..

Time for the TWU to negotiate better medical for LAA...why pull benefits down...lets lower the TWU cost to match LUS...it's the TWU Way... industry leading concessions

 

[B737 driver]

So true. And that is exactly where we will be come 2019 and beyond. All medical cost will eat up our lousy 2.2% average wages along with the COLA diluting as well. Not to mention no raise for 18 or 23 that will put us even further behind. We are in well deserve for receiving an average of 3% each and every year as it has always been in the past, good times or bad, AND co. is making and has been making record profits for many years.

Hate to tell you we have been there since 2012!!! And if we say no, and go a year to 2 years more, our medical cost are not getting any cheaper, so like I told you Swampy your math is flawed. We would go from being able to make more money with our raises in overtime, from keeping up with growth. What the nay sayers like yourselves is totally negative growth, and it gets worse every year, because you have lost all your compounded potential.

 

[UPNAWAY]

I think there are some basic company benefits that every work group should have that should be the same. In other words not negotiable.
That should be Holidays, Vacations, Medical and Flight Benefits. Now I lost the great LUS medical plan and have been on the much more expensive AA plan for a few years now, but it is still much more fair that we all have the same benefits rather than every union group carving out their own little preferences here and there. At some point we cease being a company and instead become a conglomeration of work groups. That division has plagued the unionized portions of the aviation industry since deregulation. The only things union members have fought harder than management in this industry is each other.

 

[swamt]

Hate to tell you we have been there since 2012!!! And if we say no, and go a year to 2 years more, our medical cost are not getting any cheaper, so like I told you Swampy your math is flawed. We would go from being able to make more money with our raises in overtime, from keeping up with growth. What the nay sayers like yourselves is totally negative growth, and it gets worse every year, because you have lost all your compounded potential.

So you wanna bank on having overtime? No way, no how, Most all don't want to bank on overtime, most do not want to work overtime, screw overtime,. It's there if needed and nice to use that option but you should never base your income factoring in overtime, never. That just means you are living beyond your means and have to have overtime to get by. Not something I have ever banked on and never will.
No negative growth driver, watch the growth we do now and thru next year it will be positive growth rather we have a new contract or not.
I applaud my NC for doing their due diligence to ensure all the numbers and facts are correct. No rushing into something all the members would blame AMFA for if they were to overlook one iota of an item. My math is not flawed at all driver, it just doesn't add up to want you want. Make me whole or no contract, period...