Why there will never be a T.A.

[Racer X]

From what the petition says, I do not see where anyone is asking for a TA signed sight unseen. Speaking of guys who just want the early out, I ask you this...Are they not union members too? Do they not have a right to want something that someone else does not? One member may just care about money while another cares about security while another only cares about medical while another cares about an early out. Who are the rest of us to judge what someone with a different priority may desire? What makes some members wrong and others right?

The issue with assessing a buyout to the cost of the CBA is pretty simple. Anyone looking for a buyout will vote yes regardless of what is in the agreement for EVERYONE ELSE who is left actually WORKING UNDER IT. So the buyout advocates wouldn’t care about issues like 2x pay, holidays, sick time, loss of work, etc etc etc.
Understand please that I’m not against a buyout. I just believe it should come outside of a CBA.

 

[Racer X]

If you can get the medical great, the most important is scope. Is the medical more important than scope?

I’m certain I said medical AND PROTECT OUR WORK....but to answer your question....SCOPE is MOST IMPORTANT! Followed closely by medical coverage, wages, and retirement.

 

[Racer X]

From what the petition says, I do not see where anyone is asking for a TA signed sight unseen. Speaking of guys who just want the early out, I ask you this...Are they not union members too? Do they not have a right to want something that someone else does not? One member may just care about money while another cares about security while another only cares about medical while another cares about an early out. Who are the rest of us to judge what someone with a different priority may desire? What makes some members wrong and others right?

The company has proposed to assess the value of a buyout to our CBA that would cost us gains in other areas. Why should 16,000 fleet be stuck with an agreement that could be worth millions less to have 2,000 walk out the door with a bag of money?
Again....not against a buyout. Just think if the company wants to offer one then the company could/should do it outside of negotiations.

 

[Racer X]

Nope, your crystal ball is wrong about me. It's not about me. It's about how we got screwed and now the desperation is making it worse. We need to be patient if we want any shot at an ILC. We don't have the best union negotiating for us because it's a dysfunctional organization.
We don't have the best labor friendly management team either. We are colateral damage. Our dues and labor makes the union wealthy and the company profitable. We keep giving them the a safe product and they take advantage of our hard work. The union makes sure the dues keep flowing for financial stability. In return we get representation. Now we want that representation to step up and get us that ILC as PROMISED!

Then get behind the NC and Support them!!!

 

[Racer X]

Any group that is ready to move on should be able to do so, especially when that's the most probable course in Section 6.

We can move through the process together when dealing with flow through items such as holidays but holding Fleet so Maintenance, for example, can deal with issues that are unique to them is a disservice.

I'm sure Maintenance wouldn't want to sit around while the Fleet group argues about part time language.

Is ridiculous to even make such a suggestion.

Mtc was done before fleet in the 2014 IAM negotiations. MTC in fact DID WAIT for fleet.

 

[Racer X]

Good.

Continue to do your research.

As far your articles:

Over the next several months leading towards the AMR BK, the Stores NC continued to negotiate with the assistance of Mediator Jack Kane. (even though not scheduling for Maintenance)

The Fleet NC requested to have meetings scheduled, with the assistance of Mediator Terri Brown and reached a TA in October.

One of the tactics used by the NMB is to not schedule meetings, which allows for the two parties to continue to meet but the NMB will only scheduled more meetings if there is progress made, as mentioned in the Cerf article. That forces movement as a continual "no" only stops the talks. Either there's movement or there are no talks and the Mediator decides who needs to move.

The mediator does not “decide”. They only make suggestions.

 

[WeAAsles]

The company has proposed to assess the value of a buyout to our CBA that would cost us gains in other areas. Why should 16,000 fleet be stuck with an agreement that could be worth millions less to have 2,000 walk out the door with a bag of money?
Again....not against a buyout. Just think if the company wants to offer one then the company could/should do it outside of negotiations.

Absolutely unacceptable to try and bake buyout costs into any JCBA deals.

In Fleet if the new 11 year payscale remains the Company gains a dramatic savings for each Senior Employee that’s replaced. Not even just on the wages and 401k contributions but absolutely on the Medical costs as well.

They hire in say someone who is 23 and he won’t even begin to use that Medical for decades outside of the average checkup.

In 2 to 3 years the Company will have gained back the cost of replacing each worker.

And in Maintenance since they don’t want to replace the workers at all they lose all medical expenses as the shift to work overseas negates any responsibility to provide care to foreign workers.

 

[NYer]

The company has proposed to assess the value of a buyout to our CBA that would cost us gains in other areas. Why should 16,000 fleet be stuck with an agreement that could be worth millions less to have 2,000 walk out the door with a bag of money?
Again....not against a buyout. Just think if the company wants to offer one then the company could/should do it outside of negotiations.

You don't know if it would cost gains elsewhere.

 

[NYer]

Mtc was done before fleet in the 2014 IAM negotiations. MTC in fact DID WAIT for fleet.

That was their choice.

This is a different time and a different situation.

 

[WeAAsles]

That was their choice.

This is a different time and a different situation.

You’re right it was a different time and a different situation. The IAM was in Section 6 and had a Mediator involved.

We haven’t even gotten to that point yet.

 

[WeAAsles]

You don't know if it would cost gains elsewhere.

If they are telegraphing their anticipated costs to the Negotiators for the Association then absolutely they’re factoring that into the total deals.

Didn’t you watch the Roadshow where Parker stated “Of course we want that in there, that’s a lot of money”

 

[Bin Stretcher]

That was their choice.

This is a different time and a different situation.

So solidarity is different at this stage?
Shouldn't be!

 

[WeAAsles]

So solidarity is different at this stage?
Shouldn't be!

NYer holds grudges as his ingrained nature. There were past issues between Fleet and Maintenance at LAA that caused lasting animosity that still lingers to this day unfortunately among many.

Former LAA Management did a spectacular job dividing and conquering. They had it down to a very successful Science.

That type of History doesn’t seem to exist among the LUS IAM Membership.

 

[NYer]

So solidarity is different at this stage?
Shouldn't be!

No. It isn't different. The circumstances are about to change if we go into Section 6. The NMB certified three separate Associations and at some point during that process, the three Associations will probably be separated for the duration of the negotiations.

If there is an opportunity for any of those groups to decide whether they want a vote on a final or last offer each group should have the ability to make that decision for their group.

 

[WeAAsles]

If there is an opportunity for any of those groups to decide whether they want a vote on a final or last offer each group should have the ability to make that decision for their group.

Would that be so you can have it on record that you were opposed to continuing on in Unity?

Besides the fact that having that vote alone if it’s not unanimous breaks the backs of Unity and gives power into the Company’s hands.

A vote would be pointless as an exercise to actually break up the groups anyway. IAM will be unanimous in their opposition and my “guess” is you will more than likely be the lone voice of dissent in the TWU as well?