Will US Airways keep the A-350?

[phasersonstun2]

The A-350 is in trouble. Airlines with 350 orders want a faster, sleeker jet that can match the 787. Any re-design at this point will add another two years minimum to the first aircraft delivery date. What will Airbus do?

With the first USAirways A-350 delivery slated for 2011, US 2.0 may have to buy an alternate aircraft if it wants to expand in the European/Latin American/Pacific Rim theatres. The question is will it be a stop-gap A/C such as the A-340 or A-380 or will D. P. go to Boeing and get in line for a 787? As far as I know, D.P. has no beef with the U.S. aircraft maker like the old U.S. did regarding cancelled 737 orders. What will D.P. do?

 

[a320av8r]

The A-350 is in trouble. Airlines with 350 orders want a faster, sleeker jet that can match the 787. Any re-design at this point will add another two years minimum to the first aircraft delivery date. What will Airbus do?

With the first USAirways A-350 delivery slated for 2011, US 2.0 may have to buy an alternate aircraft if it wants to expand in the European/Latin American/Pacific Rim theatres. The question is will it be a stop-gap A/C such as the A-340 or A-380 or will D. P. go to Boeing and get in line for a 787? As far as I know, D.P. has no beef with the U.S. aircraft maker like the old U.S. did regarding cancelled 737 orders. What will D.P. do?

I would imagine that since Airbus is no longer a creditor or owner of US they could go with whomever they want. I'd imagine that Airbus would have to come up with a really good deal on 330's to keep US involved with an aircraft that isn't even on the drawing board yet (350's). Could be good for US.
The beef old US and Boeing had was to do with the latter trying to make the former take the blame for a definciency in the 737 design.

 

[US AIRWAYS FAN]

Who knows at this point what they new US wants to do. I know the old US had planned going all Airbus at one point. But much has changed over the last year. I know that HP has been getting the 757's but they stopped making that type of aircraft so they are all used.

Probably the new US will go for who ever gives them the best deal. I guess we will watch and see. I also believe there are other 330-200 series that are still on order. And from what I am told they go further in range than the 300-300 series.

 

[TechBoy]

The question is will it be a stop-gap A/C such as the A-340 or A-380

Neither of these will be the answer. The 340 is a worse performer than the 330, let alone the 350. Remember, the beef with the 350 is that it will not be as good as the 787, not that it isn't better than currently offered aircraft.

As for the 380, no US carrier has ever seriously considered it. It's just too big, even for UA, AA and NW. It is certainly too big for the small US international operation.

 

[PHL]

The beef old US and Boeing had was to do with the latter trying to make the former take the blame for a definciency in the 737 design.

You must be referring to US #427 that crashed in Sep 1994. IIRC, that was a 737-300.

I just happened to see a very good analyis on that very accident on "Modern Marvels - Engineering Disasters". A similar problem befell a UA flight in 1991 (also a total loss of life/equipment) and then again on an Eastwind airlines 737 a few years after the US 427 accident. THAT flight was brought under control by the pilots and the NTSB had some better data to narrow the problem. There were apparently other 737 incidents like these on international carriers.

In the end, the cause was found to be a rudder system design flaw. The "old" US was right to stand up to Boeing on this one because the evidence was mounting from numerous incidents all over the world showing that there was, in fact, something not right about the rudder system on that type. Boeing and all its arrogance chose to point the finger back at the airline(s) rather than work more closely and cooperatively with them all.

While it's hard to say "bye-gones" for something like this, it is probably time to move on and select an aircraft based on performance and need rather than a 12 year old beef.

 

[N924PS]

You must be referring to US #427 that crashed in Sep 1994. IIRC, that was a 737-300.



While it's hard to say "bye-gones" for something like this, it is probably time to move on and select an aircraft based on performance and need rather than a 12 year old beef.

I also believe part of the Boeing-USAirways enmity to be related to the cancellation of some B757 orders that US had during the Wolf-Gangwal era. US ultimately paid off some stiff penalties for cancelling the orders but not before some expensive legal wrangling took place.

Not to mention placing a substantial order for airplanes from Airbus, even though given the B737 fleet in place at USAirways then, probably would have been a better to buy the 737NG.

 

[zethya]

I would imagine that since Airbus is no longer a creditor or owner of US they could go with whomever they want...

I believe the agreement between US and Airbus is based on "granting' the loan, not paying it off and the only way US can escape the 350 responsibility is to prove the 787 has superior performance.

 

[EricLv2Fish]

The A350 has to meet certain operational and performance criteria agreed upon by Airbus and the new US Airways. What the specific criteria is...probably on a few people know. AWA was scheduled to receive the A318. AWA got out of the agreement due to operational and performance issues. DP loves the fact he has two manufactureres competiting for the company's business. If Airbus doesn't meet the terms of the A350 agreement, don't expect DP to be "flexible" and give any slack at the expense of getting a good deal.

 

[a320av8r]

If Airbus doesn't meet the terms of the A350 agreement, don't expect DP to be "flexible" and give any slack at the expense of getting a good deal.

That's good to know. Doug's not lining his pockets...

 

[EricLv2Fish]

There is much incentive for him to help US Airways be profitable, as seen by the security exhange filings. Some people actually have integrity at the top. I know it's hard for some people to grasp, but realize that money doesn't change everyone.

It's not hard to imagine how bad this merger story could be, but the reality is it's exceeded most critics expectations to date. The merger story is still be written, but so far so good IMO.

 

[dl764]

I believe the agreement between US and Airbus is based on "granting' the loan, not paying it off and the only way US can escape the 350 responsibility is to prove the 787 has superior performance.

That is very true. I also think US Airways was pretty smart to NOT go to an all airbus Fleet.

 

[TheWatcher]

That is very true. I also think US Airways was pretty smart to NOT go to an all airbus Fleet.

Maybe taking a page from alliance partner Lufthansa, who has repeatedly stated they dont think it is a good idea to use all of one plane maker, but have the best of the two.

 

[dl764]

but have the best of the two.

exactly

 

[Flying Titan]

Based on what we've seen to date, it wouldn't surprise me to see US find a way out of the A330 and A350 orders that are on the books, due to the performance disparity with the 787. The only way to keep those Airbii widebodies coming to US should be with some steep price reductions.

One way for Airbus to save face would be to have the order converted to more A320 family aircraft on fairly attractive terms for US. Given the number of narrowbody leases that are coming to term in the next few years, this could fit in with medium-term fleet planning needs anyway. This would also permit US to go with the 787 - which would offer better performance and a quicker delivery schedule.

Ideally, an order for maybe 30-40 787s would allow US expand its reach into Asia and South America, replace its 767s and then the A330s, leaving them with just one widebody fleet type.

 

[TheWatcher]

Based on what we've seen to date, it wouldn't surprise me to see US find a way out of the A330 and A350 orders that are on the books, due to the performance disparity with the 787. The only way to keep those Airbii widebodies coming to US should be with some steep price reductions.

One way for Airbus to save face would be to have the order converted to more A320 family aircraft on fairly attractive terms for US. Given the number of narrowbody leases that are coming to term in the next few years, this could fit in with medium-term fleet planning needs anyway. This would also permit US to go with the 787 - which would offer better performance and a quicker delivery schedule.

Ideally, an order for maybe 30-40 787s would allow US expand its reach into Asia and South America, replace its 767s and then the A330s, leaving them with just one widebody fleet type.

For this to happen, there needs to be some movement soon.....from what i am reading, the delivery slots are pretty much all taken for like the first 2 yrs or so of production. That being said, some of those deliveries will be to leasing companies, perhaps US could get in on a deal with one of them...GECAS