American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[Talos]

how are we competing with our competitors? who exactly are aa's competitors?

how have we competed in bos and jfk with delta?

delta says, you have phl...thanks, but, no thanks.

The move away from going after premium passengers is hurting the airline. We always went after them and now the change has tarnished the company image. We may have more employees but the changes made by mgmt does not use them in a prudent way. I think they have the wrong approach for this airline. Maybe they will prove me wrong.

 

[NYer]

if you have more flights and planes, yes...you'll need more employees.

what is assumed is that you'll make more revenue, due to your greater volume.

According to each airline:

Delta has over 800 planes and over 80,000 employees. (about 100 per plane)

United has 783 planes and 88,000 employees (about 112 per plane)

American has 952 planes and 113,000 employees. (about 119 per plane)

If we had the same ratio as the darling of the industry, there would be 20,000 less employees. That would fix some of the profit difference. Is that really the argument we should be making?

Don't think so, because it actually helps LAA with their argument of outsourcing more. It helps their argument as to why profits lag that of DL. C'mon people.

 

[ATD]

The last few post made indicate we have many CEO types within our rank.
maybe you guys should have gone to school gotten a BS degree and put in for CEO..

 

[CremaDiLimone]

NYer -

delta and united are both publicly traded companies and they also seem to be about maximizing profits - but also rewarding their employees to the best of their abilities.

is that what aa is all about?

yesterday, here's what an analyst asked our CFO:

Rajeev Lalwani -- Morgan Stanley -- Analyst

All right, that's helpful. And then as a follow-up, just maybe for Derek as well, broadly on labor. I don't want to talk about specific contracts, but broadly on labor. Do believe that you've got to step up wages to get the buy-in of employees.

I mean that was sort of the strategy at United. It seems to be successful for now. But maybe I'm not thinking about it or approaching it the right way that that may be needed to deliver on some of what you're describing?

Doug Parker -- Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

Yes. Look, as we talk to our employees, the biggest thing we need to do for our team is provide a reliable operation. We -- and thanks to some great front-line leadership have done a really nice job of taking care of our team. We have, as you are well aware, needed to increase compensation across the board to get our wage levels to where their peers in other airlines are, because they certainly deserve to be paid really as much or more as those that are doing similar jobs at other airlines.

But the issue we are dealing with now as it relates to the team is we need to give them the tools they need to do their job, which they do so incredibly well. That's best going to take care of our customers. And we have been doing that. When we don't run, we don't have operational excellence; our team ends up bearing the brunt of that.

They end up not being where they are supposed to be. They end up having inventory over time. They end up having unhappy customers. All of which impacts the run off.

So what we know and it's important in operational excellence as to our customers and to our shareholders is really important to our team. And that's all those reasons why we are so committed to making sure it happens. And we believe doing that will do more for our team than anything else can do right now.

Rajeev Lalwani -- Morgan Stanley -- Analyst

OK, great.

that's an analyst for an investment bank asking, not me. he asked if aa will step up in regards to wages. he didn't say, "gee, you guys have more employees, so, you should pay them less". he asked and parker 'answered'. parker can't blame boeing for that.

as far as the rest, i don't understand your point. either as an employee or as a shareholder, i have every right to educate myself about the company i work for and am invested in.

if you were a negotiator, i'd expect you to be right there.

you're claiming it's not important...yet, you're astonished as to why the assoc. isn't fighting it's corner in regards to 'the slowdown' with aa's operational and procedural failures as proof of systemic problems, not an actual work slowdown.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Someone on this forum was complaining about paying .07 a gallon in fuel more than Delta. That was seen as a failure.

that is a failure. nothing to do with number of planes or employees. each company purchases jet fuel.

in fact, delta's refinery took a $130 million hit in the last quarter.

if the company can't competently make spot market jet fuel purchases, how do you think they manage everything else?

 

[CremaDiLimone]

According to each airline:

Delta has over 800 planes and over 80,000 employees. (about 100 per plane)

United has 783 planes and 88,000 employees (about 112 per plane)

American has 952 planes and 113,000 employees. (about 119 per plane)

If we had the same ratio as the darling of the industry, there would be 20,000 less employees. That would fix some of the profit difference. Is that really the argument we should be making?

Don't think so, because it actually helps LAA with their argument of outsourcing more. It helps their argument as to why profits lag that of DL. C'mon people.

right..so these numbers buttress your argument that we shouldn't expect anything/less than delta. these numbers are important.

the numbers that show that aa is not running as efficiently as dl & ua don't matter. we're still making a profit. those numbers don't count.

i don't expect the same profit sharing check as someone who earns $75k-$80k yearly at delta. i'd like to see aa increase the formula...and i'm guessing that ship has sailed for this contract, that ship will come back around in 5-6 years, whenever the negotiated current deal expires.

 

[Phoenix757767]

 

[swamt]

aa with $835 million pre-tax profit - before special items.

disappointing, top line missed. revenues at $11.9 billion, apprx. $660 million less than delta's 3q.

this is what delta had to say about it's record q3 revenues:



i know i sound like a broken record, but aa neglecting/degrading it's premium product is insane during recent and current economic conditions.

sorry, RJ flying doesn't cut it.

aa also paid .7 cents more a gallon for mainline jet fuel than delta and .1 cent more than united. are we going to the wrong gas station?

aa purchased 981 million gallons in the quarter...x .7 cents a gallon, you get the idea.

if we point at delta's refinery, delta said this about it's 'ancillary businesses and refinery':



a $131 million loser in 3q19 compared to 3q18. 32% hit.

all in all, aa pointed a finger at the max groundings and operational challenges resulting from labor contract negotiations. lame.

the company also deposited $52 million into profit sharing...taking us to $139 million for the year. delta is at $1.256 billion and united is at $368 million.

today, southwest put $144 million into it's kitty...taking them to $403 million for the year.

We now are seeing Parker start to get restless which is coming down the pike from the BOD's or should I say from across the table as he is on the BOD. If 2020 does not improve drastically for AA, shareholders, employees and investors I would think we will see some more changes at the very top-top, time will tell...

 

[swamt]

Well, Doug won't be there in 5 years to see the debt magically disappear. He will slowly be descending and making a soft landing with that "Golden Parachute" he will inherit for doing a job well done. Many of us will be gone as well, but minus the parachute of course.

Goes to show what a cluster f..k it has come to. DL. SW. UA running better than AA. Making double if not more than AA. When will the BOD stop being idiots n wake up n see how AA has chased the premium folks away n downgrade AA to the likes of Spirit

American Airlines 'taking decisive action' to improve, CEO says

 

[swamt]

no idea. i believe it was in ord. if i remember, i'll ask....otherwise, maybe someone here knows.

the point here is that aa distanced themselves from his angry comments...yet, the assoc. can't distance itself from angry comments made here or on facebook?

Gotcha. I see the comparo now that you were referring to and I agree with you.

If true, how convenient after we get our medical done for 2020 and our vacation selections for 2020. It's all obviously planned this way should we have a JCBA before years end.

I can see that happening with the medical part but if a T/A is voted in by the membership, are you saying AA would not honor the new Vac. weeks and bids since they are already bidded for 2020? The union should force them to follow the new contract even if it means rebidding some Vac's and time off.

 

[AANOTOK]

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Dang it Phoenix, you missed it by at least another week. You inside folk don't seem to be on the inside like you claim. Maybe that's just a rumor too...

 

[swamt]

According to each airline:

Delta has over 800 planes and over 80,000 employees. (about 100 per plane)

United has 783 planes and 88,000 employees (about 112 per plane)

American has 952 planes and 113,000 employees. (about 119 per plane)

If we had the same ratio as the darling of the industry, there would be 20,000 less employees. That would fix some of the profit difference. Is that really the argument we should be making?

Don't think so, because it actually helps LAA with their argument of outsourcing more. It helps their argument as to why profits lag that of DL. C'mon people.

So why leave Southwest out of your comparo? Even AA is now comparing Southwest AMT pay scales and contracts.
Southwest has 752 aircraft and 59,000 employees and is currently hiring mechanics F/A's and Pilots which will also increase some hirings within the company to help support the new front line employees coming in.
Do the math and it comes to 78.457 employees per aircraft. That's 20,000 less than Delta. As you claim Delta is 20,000 less than AA so same comparo.
It has NOTHING to do with reducing the amount of employees to get their higher pay etc... It has everything to do with how efficiently the employees work and how much MORE the employees take on at our airline in comparo to Delta, UAL, and AA.

that is a failure. nothing to do with number of planes or employees. each company purchases jet fuel.

in fact, delta's refinery took a $130 million hit in the last quarter.

if the company can't competently make spot market jet fuel purchases, how do you think they manage everything else?

Exactly. And paying .07 per gallon is huge. With 968 million gallons at .07 equals a whopping 67,760,00 just in the cost difference with fuel that affects the profit numbers right off the top. Where else could AA find more scenergies to save at? Could save hundreds of millions if they worked harder at it just like Delta and United did after their mergers and even SWA and now Alaska in the hundreds of millions in scenergies after mergers. The fact is AA could do better, the problem is they are not.

 

[dfw gen]

Dang it Phoenix, you missed it by at least another week. You inside folk don't seem to be on the inside like you claim. Maybe that's just a rumor too...

 

[Fleetoffoot]

View attachment 14740

At least we got a more detailed update LOL

 

[swamt]

View attachment 14740

So, if I read this correct there has been no T/A'd articles since they resumed mediated talks. The T/A part will not come until everything has been agreed to as far as an AIP and then a T/A.
Your guesses on a T/A keep falling further and further back. Now that they are on the 4 biggest issues at hand in this contract for several different groups. They took 5 weeks (5 sessions) and still have not, or rather, just started talks about the 4 biggies, scope, insurance, retirement and medical and they have said they are at odds with a couple of groups still. So, what makes anyone think their nego's on the 4 biggies will get done in 5 weeks? No way. What was discussed (and not T/A'd) in the last 5 sessions?? And remember, as it states in the update, things are still fluid throughout the contract, if something changes in the 4 biggie areas could be subject to change other agreements in past talks and therefore more nego's would be required on those other subjects being affected.
With the holidays steadily approaching, I don't see this being done before T-day and therefore I also don't see you fellas voting on anything before X-mas. Maybe next year sometime in 2020 which some on here have been saying for some time. It is now weeks and weeks past when you guessed or were told by the handlers and it's way passed timmy's timeframe as well.
On a third note: A very lame-lame update again. Only supply the subject of talks is not an update. And as the update indicated that the progress is not as much as they hoped it would have been causing more delays into the end of the year and maybe next year.
They still leave themselves open for more and more rumors and misinformation spreading like wild fires to cause the division and no unity that the co. loves and the asso. agrees to with the co.
I sure hope you guys get rid of this asso. after this contract is done. If not, you will experience the exact same thing with the next one. Too many different groups in the same contract. Mechanics need to get on their own with a C&C mechanics union...