American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[WeAAsles]

I guess you didn't research adulthood before you selected your profession, I understand I am not in the field I originally selected.

BTW never did care much for the traditional “trap-ings” (Emphasis TRAP) of adulthood. Just seemed to be a pretty miserable black hole when I looked at most of those who were older than me.

IE: Wife, Kids, spinning wheels, etc.

 

[Buck]

When I was a kid I had a job interview set up to be an apprentice Bartender at the Hilton Hotel in Manhattan but I sprained my ankle the day before and that gig fell through. Do you have any clue how much money Bartenders at those Hotels make? Ouch.

Anyway I guess ultimately I was cut out to be a simple humble laborer. I’m not sure but it doesn’t again sound like you have much respect for laborers?

Do you think I would have been happier if I had went to Trade School?

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Your lucky that those highering you did not find out about your damage to your ankle.

I am told old to throw bags, but this Avionics is the 2nd hardest job I ever had and the money wow!
If you would have taken up a trade and moved to Tulsa, Oklahoma, you would become a millionaire by selling your real estate.

 

[Buck]

First my line in the sand for what? If you’re asking me that question with money on your mind you’re asking the wrong guy. I’ve made a good life out of living within and now well below my means. Right now I could easily live out the rest of my career with what I’m making right now not even counting all the rest that I know is coming soon enough in time.

So if I’m wrong can you please be more specific on your line in the sand comment?

What needs to be done is the thing that you DON’T want to do. IMO you’re doing the exact and complete opposite of what you should do and you’ve probably been doing it most of your career.

In other words you’re swimming against the stream and you’re not a Salmon fish.

No for the wages and benefits in the contract.

 

[Racer X]

So we are ALL being held hostage by the IAM medical!

Lol. Held hostage?? You have a funny way of looking at things

 

[Racer X]

Scope is the current major issue, the medical won't survive.

Is that a prediction? Or A guarantee?

 

[Racer X]

Racer, let me ask a simple question. What is the harm in letting the members have a voice? What is the Association afraid of. We obviously know what happens without a vote, why not see what happens with the MEMBERS speaking. Despite what one loudmouth contiinually claims here, there is a desire for many to have a say now.

You didn’t answer my question yet

 

[Racer X]

Racer, I had a simple question for YOU and some little boy felt the need to inject himself into ones conversation AGAIN like he usually does. Of course with the name calling "Rock Thrower" and "Greedy Prick". This little kid has issue that should of been dealt with years ago, but he was failed and look what it has manifested into. I'm sure with >SPIT< absent and not giving out his "feel good" green and gold to the young one, it can have him a little down. But I digress...I had one other question for you Racer, is medical your #1 priority. I know there are many things, but would your healthcare be your must, and is it a must, can it be negotiated to say meet in the middle.

I have stated multiple times...SCOPE is most important followed by ( in no particular order) wages, medical, retirement.

 

[AANOTOK]

You didn’t answer my question yet

I'll answer your question...You seem to think by the Association not accepting what AA has to offer or at least putting something out for a vote, AA will just continue negotiations forever. You know what happens in Sept and you know AA will use that tool. So to specifically answer your question, Section 6 (or the dragging out of negotiations for months if not years) definitely helps the IAM and hurts the TWU, period. Now how about answering the one you avoided that I asked. What are you and the Association afraid of in letting the members vote on something. Simple question...

The original question.

"Racer, let me ask a simple question. What is the harm in letting the members have a voice? What is the Association afraid of. We obviously know what happens without a vote, why not see what happens with the MEMBERS speaking. Despite what one loudmouth contiinually claims here, there is a desire for many to have a say now.

 

[WeAAsles]

Racer has the Company been under any Legal obligation to negotiate for a Joint CBA when both the TWU and IAM had separate Contracts that lasted till September of 2018? Essentially asking could the Company have never even started a process for talks almost 3 years ago?

Now doesn’t Section 6 start a process where both the Company and the Association ARE Legally bound to negotiate?

Even under Section 6 can the Association and the Company meet whenever they want?

Do you think going in to Section 6 makes any real difference than the process the Association and Company have been going through up to now?

Is Section 6 a Boogeyman that us the Membership should be fearful of?

 

[Racer X]

I'll answer your question...You seem to think by the Association not accepting what AA has to offer or at least putting something out for a vote, AA will just continue negotiations forever. You know what happens in Sept and you know AA will use that tool. So to specifically answer your question, Section 6 (or the dragging out of negotiations for months if not years) definitely helps the IAM and hurts the TWU, period. Now how about answering the one you avoided that I asked. What are you and the Association afraid of in letting the members vote on something. Simple question...

The original question.

"Racer, let me ask a simple question. What is the harm in letting the members have a voice? What is the Association afraid of. We obviously know what happens without a vote, why not see what happens with the MEMBERS speaking. Despite what one loudmouth contiinually claims here, there is a desire for many to have a say now.

Ah...so now you tell me what I think?
It helps the IAM and hurts the TWU PERIOD is not an answer to my question. So I ask you, Why are you afraid to stand up and support the NC in their quest for the best possible deal they can get?
To answer your question.. What am I afraid of? Concerned is a better word. It is Just that there are members that are starving for any agreement as long as it appears to be slightly Tasty. I see it this way.... if you put a hamburger in front of a hungry man he’s gonna gobble it up. That man will be hungry again in a day or two. But , tell that man........ I know you are hungry but please don’t eat that burger now, no matter how tasty it may look...wait a little longer and you will be able to eat steak forever. What is better in the long term? So I guess I’m concerned that people will only see the burger and that they will only
Look at the here and now. They will not worry about being hungry tomorrow. Then when tomorrow comes, they will say “Damn, I wish I had waited” BUT IT WILL BE TO LATE.
That is not just in regards to medical. That also includes SCOPE, Wages, and retirement.

 

[Racer X]

Racer has the Company been under any Legal obligation to negotiate for a Joint CBA when both the TWU and IAM had separate Contracts that lasted till September of 2018? Essentially asking could the Company have never even started a process for talks almost 3 years ago?

Now doesn’t Section 6 start a process where both the Company and the Association ARE Legally bound to negotiate?

Even under Section 6 can the Association and the Company meet whenever they want?

Do you think going in to Section 6 makes any real difference than the process the Association and Company have been going through up to now?

Is Section 6 a Boogeyman that us the Membership should be fearful of?

LOL...
That’s a lot of questions.
No, neither the Association nor the company were obligated to begin negotiations when they did.
Section 6 does legally bind them to negotiate.
There is a possibility that Section 6 could actually slow up the talks instead of speeding them up. By this I mean...the Company and the ASSOC set their negotiating schedule. If a mediator were inserted in section 6 then that mediator sets the schedule. It may be more often, less often or at the current pace.
No need to fear the Sec 6 boogeyman. Lol

 

[AANOTOK]

Ah...so now you tell me what I think?
It helps the IAM and hurts the TWU PERIOD is not an answer to my question. So I ask you, Why are you afraid to stand up and support the NC in their quest for the best possible deal they can get?
To answer your question.. What am I afraid of? Concerned is a better word. It is Just that there are members that are starving for any agreement as long as it appears to be slightly Tasty. I see it this way.... if you put a hamburger in front of a hungry man he’s gonna gobble it up. That man will be hungry again in a day or two. But , tell that man........ I know you are hungry but please don’t eat that burger now, no matter how tasty it may look...wait a little longer and you will be able to eat steak forever. What is better in the long term? So I guess I’m concerned that people will only see the burger and that they will only
Look at the here and now. They will not worry about being hungry tomorrow. Then when tomorrow comes, they will say “Damn, I wish I had waited” BUT IT WILL BE TO LATE.
That is not just in regards to medical. That also includes SCOPE, Wages, and retirement.

No Bro, it's an answer you don't want to hear. It's an answer, just not to your liking.
To your second analogy...It's their choice if the want the burger today or wait till later.
And obviously it's the Association desire to have it eaten later.
But I understand your IAM and you look at things from a different perspective. You're getting your way. May not be the majority way, but you're getting your way...

 

[AANOTOK]

LOL...
That’s a lot of questions.
No, neither the Association nor the company were obligated to begin negotiations when they did.
Section 6 does legally bind them to negotiate.
There is a possibility that Section 6 could actually slow up the talks instead of speeding them up. By this I mean...the Company and the ASSOC set their negotiating schedule. If a mediator were inserted in section 6 then that mediator sets the schedule. It may be more often, less often or at the current pace.
No need to fear the Sec 6 boogeyman. Lol

Yes, I laughed out loud on that one too...

 

[Kev3188]

Racer, I had a simple question for YOU and some little boy felt the need to inject himself into ones conversation AGAIN like he usually does.

There used to be a guy on here that did that a lot. Lived in Brazil.

Jobs went away because of Deregulation starting in 1978 and us not wanting or accepting to work for what the LCC’s were paying. Jobs went away because we voted for more money over them. Jobs went away because of concessions and Bankruptcies.

Total Jobs in aviation have skyrocketed since deregulation.

People at AA may have voted to get rid of the work, but those are two separate things.

As far as the new hires, I'll tell you about those I know. They don't believe in putting their time in. They want the best vacation picks and shift/day off choices NOW!
I won't even address their work ethic and carefree attitude toward the job.

I’ve ran into a few of those over the years.

F—k those guys.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

No Bro, it's an answer you don't want to hear. It's an answer, just not to your liking.
To your second analogy...It's there choice if the want the burger today or wait till later.
And obviously it's the Association desire to have it eaten later.
But I understand your IAM and you look at things from a different perspective. You're getting your way. May not be the majority way, but you're getting your way...

That's my biggest problem. The IAM gets what they want the longer they stall or refuse to agree on anything. Meanwhile the TWU continues to suffer. Although we should not be quick to accept anything his analogy of a starving man being told to not eat the hamburger is more like the guy telling him to ignore the hamburger just finished his own hamburger and is ordering desert. I have a great idea... How about the IAM and TWU swap benefits for the next two years? Then we can sit tight and wait while they live with what we have now. Also let them pay the medical premiums we pay today while we get theirs. Then we'll be taking home more $$$ than they are plus work one week less than they do a year. I would bet their attitudes would change.