In sourcing ground handling

[Kev3188]

If what you want to hear that My Role as a VENDOR is to take away jobs from Airline workers...........

No, I want to hear if you realize that you are taking good paying jobs from American workers by abetting the agenda of corporations, and why you're okay with that, when you say:

I’m not too thrilled about my role.

It's a Dirty job but someone has to do it.

Not true. People like you have *chosen* to do so.

It’s the reality of life and the Business we have chosen......

See above.

I TRUELY envy you and others like you that take so much pride in their company and years of service. That is the honest truth and I hope someday to be able to have said pride in my company. This has become a cut throat industry and I am just another PAWN....

So you have no control over your fate? That's pretty fatalist-and weak...

You have choices; you choose not to exercise them. Based on what you have said on here, you had one failed attempt at a gig with AA in MIA, and have now decided that there's no point in trying to get on direct with a carrier, even though there are opportunities all around you. You have the advantage of having 3 major airports within a decent drive of you (that's not counting jobs at places like Opa Locka)...

I can honestly say that I CAN. Not sure why but that question bothered me a bit. I'm trying to understand why you would ask something like that. beacuse I'm a Vendor... When i said that we do it Faster and Cheaper. It's important that you understand that cheaper part comes from no Benefits, thats' ALL. the Pay is GREAT!!!!

So not having healthcare for you and your wife (and kids if you have them) is not a priority for you?

Vendors might do it cheaper, but they certainly don't do it better. You definitely get what you pay for.

You may try and dismiss that as hubris, but looked at systemically, its the truth.

 

[REPUS]

There is no much left for me to say.. no matter what my reply is, you will all have your opinions so called facts and I will have mine.. But be clear on one thing.. I did not fail at attempting to get a job with Major Airline. I CHOOSE to go another route for personal reasons...(STAY)

Also what makes you think that i cannot or don't have medical coverage for me and mine.. Assumption is the Root of a Evil....


Not all Vendors are as weak as you might think.. I'm proud to work with a Good Group that takes pride in what we do and hope to continue doing it. No matter who is paying..


I must be the ONLY vendor is this site...

GOD BLESS YOU ALL...... :unsure:

 

[Kev3188]

There is no much left for me to say.. no matter what my reply is, you will all have your opinions so called facts and I will have mine.. But be clear on one thing.. I did not fail at attempting to get a job with Major Airline. I CHOOSE to go another route for personal reasons...(STAY)

Yeah, I know. They offered you money. My point stands. You bemoan the fact that you can't go direct, but turn down offers to do so. At the same time, you talk about being envious of the pride people have in their carrier/careers, yet gleefully promote the very corporations that undercut the ability to build said careers.

It reads like a feeble attempt to garner empathy. It won't work.

Also what makes you think that i cannot or don't have medical coverage for me and mine.. Assumption is the Root of a Evil....

This.

It's important that you understand that cheaper part comes from no Benefits, thats' ALL.

Apparently, you have spousal coverage or have a private policy. Good for you.

 

[night-ice]

mind you this is just my opinion/question.

to me, if a company is a subsidiary and 100 percent owned by the parent company, those employees at the subsidiary should be able to travel on each other fee waived. now if a company is independent and only has an agreement with another company those employees should still have a benefit but it should not be "free" as if they were actually employed at mainline or a 100 percent owned subsidiary.

now this is my question? today...is Pinnacle 100 percent owned by the parent company as a subsidiary or are they a totally independent company who has an agreement?

No, Pinnacle is not wholly-owned anymore. We do get ZED's on DL and Comair but the reciprocation is not the same: DL and wholly-owned do not have to purchase ZED's to fly on 9E but we do if we want to fly them. There was a post over on the DL retiree page that in the next non-rev phase (whenever that is), DL and the wholly-owned will have boarding priority over 9E employees on their own 9E operated flights/aircraft. So, here Pinnacle employees are: purchase ZED's on DL (and the wholly-owned) and board as other airline (oa) employees at the bottom of the list. Should a DL employee decide to fly on 9E, they pay nothing AND can (according to the memo) have higher boarding priority than us 9E employees on our own aircraft. Something's not quiet right with this scenario. Yes, I understand Pinnacle is a contractor but that's not the issue. Who knows if Pinnacle will be awarded ANY ramp work?? So far, they haven't..Comair has been getting everything.

I have worked mainline before and I can attest to the fact that there is a "WORLD OF DIFFERENCE". I would prefer mainline employment without hesitation; however, my station has no mainline-operated flights with any carriers. I am not driving 3 1/2 hrs each way to work for mainline, either, when the airport I work at is only 15 minutes away. Hate to get on a rampage here but the facts are what they are: those who choose to work for a contractor (wholly-owned or not) makes those decisions but not all of us have the luxury of having mainline service to our hometown. Several years ago, we had DL, US and UAL mainline service but not anymore.

Fortunately, this isn't my livelihood. I have healthcare, medical, dental, etc; and a much higher salary through my full-time employment.

 

[DalMD88]

If what you want to hear that My Role as a VENDOR is to take away jobs from Airline workers........... Then here it is...My Role as a VENDOR is to take away jobs from Airline workers.

If the above makes you feel better about yourself.. Then more power to you. I’m not too thrilled about my role. It's a Dirty job but someone has to do it. It’s the reality of life and the Business we have chosen......I TRUELY envy you and others like you that take so much pride in their company and years of service. That is the honest truth and I hope someday to be able to have said pride in my company. This has become a cut throat industry and I am just another PAWN....

"It's dirty job but someone has to do it", not really in this case. That line applies to picking up garbage, shoveling out sewers, basiclly any thing Mike Rowe would show up for.

You don't have to do this job for less money and bennies than a mainline airline employee. If guys like you didn't come along these jobs would still be done by mainline airline employees. Sure sometimes contract is the best option. A carrier that has only one or two flights a day should contract. I personally hate all the subcontracing just to save a buck. I don't care if it flying, baggage, or mtc. These should be mainline when ever possible. Yes that means all those RJ's should be part of the mainline group. All those RJ pilots should be DL. All the cabin crew should be DL. All the ground staff should be DL. Having a different payscale for the RJ ops is just stupid for ramp and counter. These folks do the EXACT same job as mainline. They handle our people. When I'M CEO this will go away.

 

[Dignity]

thank you..


while I fully appreciate what you are writing, there may have been a time.. when the regional jet may have been actually staffed with mainline employees, in order for someone to have the opportunity for employment may have meant that a mainline employee(including a full benefit package) lost the ability to staff a station/flight by either aircraft substitution or station outsourcing..to me, this is a race to the bottom situation that really needs to come to a stop.

I am also happy to read you have health insurance ..somewhere.. this honestly is a very important issue, as a person can be fine one day, go to bed and wake the next with a problem (and it can happen just like that regardless of age or health status)..but this also is concerning if the employer may not be offering health insurance..that would be more important to me as a priority than a pass riding category, are you considered a part time employee?

I completely understand there is an actual need for regional service at some smaller stations, as a matter of fact some would have zero flights available without that option for customers in those communities. it just appears the trend is going the.. route ..replacing mainline aircraft with regional jets domestically.. while slashing pay and insurance benefits for associated employees. the interesting aspect in all of this is simply the aircraft that are being considered "regional" today offers full galley service..a real first class cabin, meals and other mainline amenities but still considered "regional" for pay and benefits(and it appears based on some of these comments no benefits)..

these decisions ultimately regarding passes are not made by mainline employees rather than the management teams who negotiate the contracts/bidding between mainline and the vendor. if the company is independent and bidding on particular aircraft/stations to subcontract... the issue regarding pass benefits should be addressed to the management team who ultimately makes these arrangements at these companies.

I hope you have a great day.

 

[LGA Fleet Service]

If what you want to hear that My Role as a VENDOR is to take away jobs from Airline workers........... Then here it is...My Role as a VENDOR is to take away jobs from Airline workers.

Yay for you Chief. Your VENDOR bills their client XX dollars per man hour and pays you X dollars per hour.Should've taken that job with AA sport,yeah your vendor might pay you more now, but longer term they can't smell top pay at AA, it's $21.16 an hour.You cost that vendor more than $10.00 an hour and you're outta' there.

If the above makes you feel better about yourself.. Then more power to you. I’m not too thrilled about my role. It's a Dirty job but someone has to do it. It’s the reality of life and the Business we have chosen......I TRUELY envy you and others like you that take so much pride in their company and years of service. That is the honest truth and I hope someday to be able to have said pride in my company. This has become a cut throat industry and I am just another PAWN....

If you were any more full of it blue water would be coming out of your ears.

You chose to work at a service company yet come here and tell us you envy our pride in our respective companies? Please.

I feel sad for guys like you who take the slave wages and do it "Faster" or "Better".

It's attitudes like yours that are eroding good middle class blue collar jobs in this country.You know, the jobs that built this country.


"I'll do it faster and cheaper for less and I don't need those darn expensive health care benefits!"

Eventually you will cost your beloved vendor money and they will either replace you or cut your pay.

 

[T5towbar]

That's the beef I have with all of the outsourcing.
Like I said in my previous posts that there is a need for ground handling companies (especially doing international flights). If you are near or working at a big airport, there is plenty work out there. (and obviously these companies pay decently with benefits.) So I don't have any complaints with them.

What I am worried about (as a mainline employee) is a "race to the bottom" as far as wages and benefits. We know that the outsources like DGS can pay much better (and less turnover). I thought that DGS (within the DL family), there employees can get "promoted" into DL mainline whenever there are openings. But that's not the case. (Even DL has a "ready reserve" program which they hire "seasonal or temp" workers.) That bother's me a lot. If you have our own outsourcing company within a major airline (with the DELTA name), at least give those employees first crack at a mainline post if they wanted. And even keep their "company seniority" if applicable. since they are in the DL family. But we know that Dickie won't let that happen.

I know there is a need for regional companies, but pay them fairly, and treat them with respect.

 

[Don Smith]

That's the beef I have with all of the outsourcing...

What I am worried about (as a mainline employee) is a "race to the bottom" as far as wages and benefits. We know that the outsources like DGS can pay much better (and less turnover)....

"Race to the bottom", the airlines are ALL looking for the bottom line and want to spend as little as possible on things like loading bags, maintaining airplanes even flying airplanes. That is why everytime you turn around airlines like Delta are going to contract companies like Chautauqua, Comair and Ameri..something. If nwa or Delta can reduce costs by outsourcing, whoever is in there now is history. Until ML can do it competitively, we'll keep going the way of the dodo. I can't fault an airline for putting a regional into some burg with limited service. Those regionals have to bring those passengers to the main hub. DTW works well, keeping the regionals on their own side of the field. The two never meet...and neither do the work forces. As far as some of these guys "choosing" to work the contractors? Same story as its always been...not right for some reason and the airlines can be picky right now. (SCAB job action being the exception).

 

[Delta Technician]

"Race to the bottom", the airlines are ALL looking for the bottom line and want to spend as little as possible on things like loading bags, maintaining airplanes even flying airplanes. That is why everytime you turn around airlines like Delta are going to contract companies like Chautauqua, Comair and Ameri..something. If nwa or Delta can reduce costs by outsourcing, whoever is in there now is history. Until ML can do it competitively, we'll keep going the way of the dodo. I can't fault an airline for putting a regional into some burg with limited service. Those regionals have to bring those passengers to the main hub. DTW works well, keeping the regionals on their own side of the field. The two never meet...and neither do the work forces. As far as some of these guys "choosing" to work the contractors? Same story as its always been...not right for some reason and the airlines can be picky right now. (SCAB job action being the exception).

If the airlines can, they will also outsource the hubs if they have to deal with unionized workforce that can be done with non-unionized workforce who do the same job cheaper. It's all about costs. I say let the ramp workers vote union. If the cost of union workers is not competitive, they will be outsourced. It's all about cost at this point.

 

[night-ice]

If the airlines can, they will also outsource the hubs if they have to deal with unionized workforce that can be done with non-unionized workforce who do the same job cheaper. It's all about costs. I say let the ramp workers vote union. If the cost of union workers is not competitive, they will be outsourced. It's all about cost at this point.

Pinnacle ramp is union - USW. Although the pay isn't the greatest (nor really the union, either), but hey..they're union.

 

[T5towbar]

All I'm saying (in the case of DGS) is why their employees can't get promoted into DL mainline if there were openings, and why a "ready reserve" program? These guys handle some DL flights where they are mainline employees are stationed also. I can see the purpose if they are handling another airline's planes, but being a vendor on you own planes, that confuses me..... My nephew did a stint as a RR employee for a couple of months till he left since CO is hiring at the hub. They kept him busy during the holidays, but afterwards, he didn't get a schedule call. And he didn't want to go back to DGS. At least being with us, he will be in a more stable situation working here at the hub.

That's one thing I can't figure out. I guess DL don't hire a lot of ML employees.......
And what about the integration with the NW guys? How's that coming along?