June - IAM Fleet Service Discussion

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nielson came to clt last week
and opend a koolaid stand
i hear he left clt with a lot
o leftover koolaid cuz
nobdy was buying!
 
pj,
I ask you to vote as you see fit. Just as you insist I don't hold the current leadership accountable for the language of the current CBA I ask that you consider that many on the Leadership for Progress Team had nothing to do with the negotiations of our current CBA and are running on their own credentials. I am not holding the current leadership team responsible for the existing language in our CBA. The BUF closing was unique. They escorted members off the job prior to the announced closing date.
Imo.. precedence has been set, with the settlement, regarding this issue.
ograc

Their own credentials? Like MW, RE, RK, AJ, TR, and lets not forget canoli's go to girl KA. All of them were canoli ring kissers. We as a membership will not forget the canoli days, and the injustice that was done to us by that group, and hopefully we will not see a reinstallment of that failed group. You know the old saying that one bad apple spoils the bunch. Well it looks like there are more than a few bad apples on the LfP ticket, so the whole group should be considered rotten, and tossed out.
 
Their own credentials? Like MW, RE, RK, AJ, TR, and lets not forget canoli's go to girl KA. All of them were canoli ring kissers. We as a membership will not forget the canoli days, and the injustice that was done to us by that group, and hopefully we will not see a reinstallment of that failed group. You know the old saying that one bad apple spoils the bunch. Well it looks like there are more than a few bad apples on the LfP ticket, so the whole group should be considered rotten, and tossed out.

pj,
If we are to apply the one bad apple spoils the whole bunch philosophy to a team of candidates that have ties to RC... canoli ring kissers as you call them... then the entire ND Team must be considered rotten and tossed out. This team has 6 candidates, inclusive of the President, who served on the RC team as well. With that being said... I'm not sure I see your point. When I spoke of running on their own credentials I was referring to the other candidates on the team.
ograc
 
Settlement?......are you saying that there was some sort of settlement? or is that an educated guess. Anyway...maybe the company was concerned regarding property or such...IDK. I know when i was first furloughed that a lot of things were reported missing the morning after. Who knows what goes thru the minds of this company. All i know is that we are not worth being in-the-know so to speak. Im very curious as to what settlement you are referring?

mmike33,
I believe the settlement is posted on the occupy site for review.
ograc
 
Ograc and others: The main reason I got on to this subject was because of the ways TN was using it. In the context of a campaign no problem. Say whatever you need to say to sway votes. But anyone who uses such tactics should be aware that they can ultimately be used as negative evidence as to their qualifications for a position of responsability.

So I did go over to the Occupy site and read the "settlement". Section 8 says that it was
not to be construed as being arrived at from any prior precident, And I read that as also referring to future negotiations. In other words a one time deal. I could be wrong.

There is no date on the document so I assume that these stations were outsourced on Jan 9. Which would have been 9 days later than was contractual. On this forum people have brought up that Canale had an agreement lasting somewhat longer (90 more days?) Is there any evidence of this? I have been told that Canale has never released any of his notes to the ND team. So I don't know.

There is also a difference of dates expressed on here as to the exact date that the company came into BUF to (OK consession to TNs terminology) lock them out. One was in Nov before thanksgiving and the other was Dec 20.

The Botton line is all these stations lost big time. Mainly IMO MSY followed by BUF. If someone wants to place blame there are a lot of possiblities. Its not as if there were no history.

Was it all canales fault that all those east stations were outsourced? Anyway the pressure was on him for no further east loses. So these were all west stations. Who's fault? Whatever all the history I have been told that this outsourcing issues is at the top of the agenda in negotiations.
Thanks BF
 
So Cargo, I have read the so called settlement and have done some monetary evaluations of the remedy. My question to you, but i would really like it from KA, is what would you have done different? Given the arbitrator was involved for a little time. What path would you have gone down?.....ND's decision is obvious as signed in the AGREEMENT( settlement)....What is yours? And not to let TIM off the hook, lets hear form you TIM?
 
Ograc and others: The main reason I got on to this subject was because of the ways TN was using it. In the context of a campaign no problem. Say whatever you need to say to sway votes. But anyone who uses such tactics should be aware that they can ultimately be used as negative evidence as to their qualifications for a position of responsability.

So I did go over to the Occupy site and read the "settlement". Section 8 says that it was
not to be construed as being arrived at from any prior precident, And I read that as also referring to future negotiations. In other words a one time deal. I could be wrong.

There is no date on the document so I assume that these stations were outsourced on Jan 9. Which would have been 9 days later than was contractual. On this forum people have brought up that Canale had an agreement lasting somewhat longer (90 more days?) Is there any evidence of this? I have been told that Canale has never released any of his notes to the ND team. So I don't know.

There is also a difference of dates expressed on here as to the exact date that the company came into BUF to (OK consession to TNs terminology) lock them out. One was in Nov before thanksgiving and the other was Dec 20.

The Botton line is all these stations lost big time. Mainly IMO MSY followed by BUF. If someone wants to place blame there are a lot of possiblities. Its not as if there were no history.

Was it all canales fault that all those east stations were outsourced? Anyway the pressure was on him for no further east loses. So these were all west stations. Who's fault? Whatever all the history I have been told that this outsourcing issues is at the top of the agenda in negotiations.
Thanks BF
BF,
The date the BUF employees were locked out was December 19, 2011 based on my sources. The announced closing date was January 09, 2012. This represents at least three weeks of lost compensation and benefit coverage. Was the announced outsourcing a contractual violation? No. Walking members off the property before the closing date, without just cause, opens up another issue. Imo...as a result of the settlement we have opened the door for the company to do the same with future closings. Outsourcing at the top of the agenda is hollow assurances. History has shown outsourcing is a non issue to those in the larger stations. In the end... that's where the votes are for any ratification vote on a contract. The company knows and preys on this. End result... less IAM represented members.
ograc
 
So Cargo, I have read the so called settlement and have done some monetary evaluations of the remedy. My question to you, but i would really like it from KA, is what would you have done different? Given the arbitrator was involved for a little time. What path would you have gone down?.....ND's decision is obvious as signed in the AGREEMENT( settlement)....What is yours? And not to let TIM off the hook, lets hear form you TIM?

mmike33,
First of all, I would have sought lost compensation, credited benefit, pension contribution, sick time and vacation accrual for the weeks lost. Additionally, I would have gone to the station to hear from the members on what they viewed as fair remedial action in this case. From what I hear none of this was done. AGC never visited the station in the crisis. Great example of IAM representation. Oh, by the way, I just posted a notice to the members in Januuary that their dues were being increased. It's getting embarassing!
ograc
 
ograc
Walking members off the property with no prior warning or just cause is also legitimate grounds for a lawsuit.
Your correct about the large stations voting tendencies. But that's not the whole story by any means. I would take a dollar an hour less for insourcing. But I doubt many others would. The company at some time or other has it's actuaries (the right term?) come up
with a bottom line cost analysis over a period of time for employee cost of union vs
contract worker. Those are the figures I'd like to get a hold of. BF
 
Its not grounds for a lawsuit, it would have to be a major dispute under the RLA for that to happen.

It is a minor dispute and you have to follow the grievance procedure contained in the CBA.


The RLA categorizes all labor disputes as either "major" disputes, which concern the making or modification of the collective bargaining agreement between the parties, or "minor" disputes, which involve the interpretation or application of collective bargaining agreements. Unions can strike over major disputes only after they have exhausted the RLA's "almost interminable" negotiation and mediation procedures. They cannot, on the other hand, strike over minor disputes, either during the arbitration procedures or after an award is issued.
The federal courts have the power to enjoin a strike over a major dispute if the union has not exhausted the RLA's negotiation and mediation procedures. The Norris-LaGuardia Act dictates the procedures that the court must follow. Once the NMB releases the parties from mediation, however, they retain the power to engage in strikes or lockouts, even if they subsequently resume negotiations or the NMB offers mediation again.
The federal courts likewise have the power to enjoin a union from striking over arbitrable disputes. The court may, on the other hand, also require the employer to restore the status quo as a condition of any injunctive relief against a strike.
 
700: What I meant to say is that these employees have individual rights which transcend the union or the RLA. But perhaps none of those rights were violated. I don't know if the union would have any role in those cases though. For example a manager constanly badgering someone for no reason to the point of abuse.

Actually the reason I made that statement was to point out that maybe there was a reason for the companies behavior in the case of BUF. I was being fascitious. What I really meant to say that even If these employees were'nt bound by the RLA, They may not have had any grounds for a lawsuit. I don't know the details, just the assertion that the company came barging on the property like storm troopers. Now was there no reason? I don't know. It looks like Ograc thinks he could have got more out of the deal.

Thanks BF
 
Actually they dont, if you work under the CBA, you have to follow the grievance procedure, a court will not hear a lawsuit.

It wasnt the first time it happened, it happened to the Mechanic and Related in the bankruptcy, there were given no notice, called in the breakroom at the hangar and told the hangar was closing now, get your stuff and leave.

Since that violated the WARN Act the IAM took US to court since 60 days notice was not followed and got the employees the additional 50 days of pay and benefits. BUF ramp did not fall under the WARN Act.
 
And another thing...I aint done yet...The original grievence, I believe, was filed in Oct. If any mistakes were made it would have been not filing a separate grievence For BUF on Dec 20. They were the only ones who suffered an obvious breach of contract. Give them back pay and the whole shot. But it seems all the stations were lumped together in the grievence. The discussion of BUF during the
grievence proceedure is what would be important here. What I'm saying here is that maybe Delaney had some reasons not to push the BUF issue. Thanks. I have to go to work now. So thankfully I'm done.
No wait.. I've got 2 more minutes... Naw.. See You BF
 
mmike33,
First of all, I would have sought lost compensation, credited benefit, pension contribution, sick time and vacation accrual for the weeks lost. Additionally, I would have gone to the station to hear from the members on what they viewed as fair remedial action in this case. From what I hear none of this was done. AGC never visited the station in the crisis. Great example of IAM representation. Oh, by the way, I just posted a notice to the members in Januuary that their dues were being increased. It's getting embarassing!
ograc

So easily it flows off your tongue....you would have to be there to realize the decisions that were made and why. There are probably a slough of them, IDK, but you are making it seem like there was some room for negotiating! Maybe you would have done something thing different. But com on!...... you think the outcome would have been anything different?
Don't say yes because that implies assurances....be safe and be honest...just say IDK !!!!!!!!
Also weren't some of those comps that you listed applied in this case?
 
BF,
The date the BUF employees were locked out was December 19, 2011 based on my sources. The announced closing date was January 09, 2012. This represents at least three weeks of lost compensation and benefit coverage. Was the announced outsourcing a contractual violation? No. Walking members off the property before the closing date, without just cause, opens up another issue. Imo...as a result of the settlement we have opened the door for the company to do the same with future closings. Outsourcing at the top of the agenda is hollow assurances. History has shown outsourcing is a non issue to those in the larger stations. In the end... that's where the votes are for any ratification vote on a contract. The company knows and preys on this. End result... less IAM represented members.
ograc


Locking IAM members out and walking members off the property before the closing date without just cause without lost compensation and benefits could be considered a major dispute >>>>>>>> unless a deal was made ..
There needs to be a sting to the company to prevent the company from future disregard
 
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