OCT/NOV 2012 IAM Fleet Service Discussions

[Ramp Rogue]

What is this seniority protection that keeps popping up? How can our seniority be protected against another airline in a merger or buyout, when it can't even be protected within our own group? The same goes for job security.

Rogue.....

 

[ograc]

What is this seniority protection that keeps popping up? How can our seniority be protected against another airline in a merger or buyout, when it can't even be protected within our own group? The same goes for job security.

Rogue.....

Rogue,
Contractual seniority protection language in the event of a merger or acquisition is crucial. In the case of US and AA... if a merger or acquisition were to take place... the seniority integration of the Fleet Service would be dictated by the union elected to represent the combined group. There are stark differences in the language governing seniority integration in the event of a merger or acquisition between the TWU represented Fleet Service at AA and the IAM represented Fleet Service at US. IMO.. If there is a combined carrier we, the combined work group, will be tasked with deciding, through a representation election, which union will be the Collective Bargaining Agent. The results of that election will determine the seniority integration. US Fleet needs to do their research. I'm not sure what you are referencing when you speak of not protecting seniority within our own group. The issue of failure to secure jobs... I hear ya! The contractual language, pertaining to outsourcing, is disgraceful and needs to be cleaned up. In defense of the newly elected team and NC this issue and Article was dropped in their lap but IMO... it needs to be fixed.
ograc

 

[Ramp Rogue]

Ograc,

When there are layoffs, closed cities. or downsizing, and a person is forced into unemployment while there are employees with less seniority working in other stations, that is not seniority protection. Nor is it job security. When a person has been working in the same classification for 20 years, and someone in the same classification for 18 years gets to bid their vacation and work schedules first, that is not job security or seniority protection. And that is what the iam has been doing to us since they've been on the property, and they still don't get it.

Rogue

 

[john john]

It is not LEGAL to release proposals on anything by either side!

Unions have a obligation to report to their members and to update them
on meetings, briefings, and other information that may affect the careers, lives and welfare of their members. “Business confidential” refers to unreleased data, Charts or strategies that would aid or assist a competitor of US Airways
The unions need to disseminate information among the workers respecting economic, social, political and other matters affecting their lives and welfare.
To cauterizes union proposals as “Business confidential” that would aid or assist a competitor of USAirways is stretching

 

[ograc]

Ograc,

When there are layoffs, closed cities. or downsizing, and a person is forced into unemployment while there are employees with less seniority working in other stations, that is not seniority protection. Nor is it job security. When a person has been working in the same classification for 20 years, and someone in the same classification for 18 years gets to bid their vacation and work schedules first, that is not job security or seniority protection. And that is what the iam has been doing to us since they've been on the property, and they still don't get it.

Rogue

I gather from your post you belive in systemwide seniority "bumping rights" in the event of a station being closed or outsorced. Anything short of this... in your opinion... is an injustice to true seniority protection. I cannot disagree with your assesment. There is much work to be done on improving our current CBA. The current NC is up against a monumental challenge. We need to be patient and supportive. I propose we tighten up the scope language that allows the outsourcing of Fleet Service work in outline stations as a start. Kill the weed (issue) at it's root. I believe the current NC gets it. Hopefully, they can bring back improved scope language. Realize though, improvements in the CBA by the NC, are harder to obtain without the support of the membership. IMO... If we stand united we will see positive improvements.
ograc

 

[Kev3188]

I propose we tighten up the scope language that allows the outsourcing of Fleet Service work in outline stations as a start.

Definitely the first step.

As for exercising seniority, I believe that our CBA at NW had the best language going. You first had to bump w/in your station. if that wasn't an option, you could exercise anywhere on the system your seniority held, whether it was into an open position or an occupied one. No "juniority" lists, no nothing. Very simple, very clear.

 

[ograc]

Definitely the first step.

As for exercising seniority, I believe that our CBA at NW had the best language going. You first had to bump w/in your station. if that wasn't an option, you could exercise anywhere on the system your seniority held, whether it was into an open position or an occupied one. No "juniority" lists, no nothing. Very simple, very clear.

True seniority bumping rights would make them think twice before outsourcing Fleet work. I believe MTC. & Related had this language at one time. Let's be realistic though... this language would be next to impossible to get the company to agree to. And at what cost? Negotiations are always give and take. Stronger language limiting outsourcing is needed and perhaps more obtainable.

 

[700UW]

With M&R at US we use to be able to bump anywhere in the system where our seniority could hold, then we gave a concession that we would have to bump in our station first in a different bid area, and if we couldnt do that then we could exercise our seniority system wide. I never understood why Fleet at US didnt have the same language that we had in the M&R CBA.

 

[Kev3188]

I'm sure the company will assign a dollar value to it in negotiations... Scope obviously did, but I honestly can't recall ever seeing one attached to exercise rights. I'll have to dig around to see if I can find anything.

 

[blue collar]

M&R still has the language, and I would think that fleet should strive to get the same language. I don't get why you guys have part/full time seniority - seems kinda screwy. The only problem I had with the M&R seniority system was in regards to lead/inspector time, I've always thought it should go by mechanic time.

 

[700UW]

Well you have to remember the lead, or inspector is a different classification, your company time is used for vacation, the date of classification is used for bid areas and shifts.

If someone was a lead for 10 years and a 20 year mechanic bids a lead job, is is fair that someone who has all ready been a lead for 10 years be junior to someone who never held a lead job?

 

[blue collar]

If someone was a lead for 10 years and a 20 year mechanic bids a lead job, is is fair that someone who has all ready been a lead for 10 years be junior to someone who never held a lead job?

IMHO, yes.

 

[Kev3188]

If someone was a lead for 10 years and a 20 year mechanic bids a lead job, is is fair that someone who has all ready been a lead for 10 years be junior to someone who never held a lead job?

Not fair at all, IMO...

Lots of people clamor for "straight DOH" across the board. I'm all for it except for when it comes to shift bidding w/in classification. Your example is an often overlooked unintended consequence...

 

[700UW]

How is it fair blue?

Say you been a lead mechanic for 10 years, a mechanic bids a lead job never had lead time and say has 15 years, mechanic time, no lead time, yet you want him to be senior to you for bid area and shifts?

Or better yet, I was a stock clerk for 25 years, I decide to get my A&P, you been a mechanic for say 20 years, so with your logic I never turned a wrench, but now I am senior to you and take your shift and days off from you, that isnt fair at all.

 

[blue collar]

As far as stock clerk bidding mechanic, that is a whole different classification, and you would start at the bottom. I just don't agree with the premium seniority w/in the mechanic classification. Say you're in a small outstation that has high seniority, and a lead retires. Is it fair that someone from PHL who's got 1 or 2 year company time (1.5 as a lead) bids into that spot, rather than the 20 year guy who's been in station waiting for the spot to open?