US Pilots Labor Discussion 3/11- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[nic4us]

BS!!!...and the standard west tap dancing. Do you now DENY that many of yours were, in actual fact, in grade school when others out east began their professional flying careers?....others that the nic would magically make "junior" to said "kids"? Again...just more west BS...

Tough luck if you don't like the "characterizations"/FACTS!!

Now this is not funny, and I am not laughing.

Allow me to point out some more FACTS!!!

Recently I flew with a 57 yr old f/o. He began his flying career some 35 years ago as an officer in the USAF. When Kady dob 1963, Somma dob 1962, Colby dob 1963, Berman dob 1963, Martens dob 1962 and Mangus dob 1964, were mere grade-school children.

Who are these youngsters you ask? They are a string of names of furloughed east pilots immediately junior to Colello. want to hear some more, Beonarik '64, McGeough '62, Mandy '62, Hocking '62, these folks are some 50 numbers senior to Colello. I then moved up the list quite a bit further and found more grade-school children from the east list occupying positions senior to the guy I had the pleasure of working with recently.

No, I do not deny that I was probably in grade-school when busdriver began his career, more likely high-school, and that there are others out West that were indeed in grade-school, maybe even pre-school.

What I deny, is that gives them the right to steal from their younger more senior co-workers.

 

[cleardirect]

BS!!!...and the standard west tap dancing. Do you now DENY that many of yours were, in actual fact, in grade school when others out east began their professional flying careers?....others that the nic would magically make "junior" to said "kids"? Again...just more west BS...

Tough luck if you don't like the "characterizations"/FACTS!!

Define “manyâ€￾. Give us a number, just how many were in grade school?

The average age of east pilots is 53, the average age of west pilots is 48. If you can’t do the math it is a 5 years difference is all. You can stop with the kids, children remarks.

Just because your career choice was a lousy one or anyone else that stuck around that pig of an airline to watch it crater to bad. If it took your airline 22 years to get a line in the right seat that does not mean the rest of us should be drug down to your level.

If you have a problem with the age thing, the seniority thing, the grade school thing, the US Airways liquidating thing take it up with Nicolau. Take it up with your merger committee.

They decided how this list was going to be put together no us, not the west pilots. We are simply trying to implement what we agreed to. If that does not appeal to your delicate sensibilities then find somewhere else to work.

 

[HPDriver]

BS!!!...and the standard west tap dancing. Do you now DENY that many of yours were, in actual fact, in grade school when others out east began their professional flying careers?....others that the nic would magically make "junior" to said "kids"? Again...just more west BS...

Tough luck if you don't like the "characterizations"/FACTS!!

Easy big guy. You don't want to give yourself a heart attack.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

I've been a union member for most of my working life and I can say that binding arbitrations started out to be a means to fast tract issues between companies and the unions.

And it's become somewhat different.

I don't think binding arbitrations should be part of anyone's contract anymore.


IMO

Uh, who cares about your opinion on binding arbitration, how about the fact that its an agreement, one taken by both sides that is binding and that both sides agree to live with the agreement? Or perhaps you just want to abrogate agreements as you see fit when you don't get your way?

Kinda like the neighborhood kid that would take away his football when he didn't get his way, pretty much a cowardly gesture, doncha think?

 

[cleardirect]

I have been at US airways for over 22 years. According to Nic I am junior to someone hired about a year prior to the merger. I have worked here the whole time under some very difficult times. Took huge pay cuts to keep this thing alive. The only I had left to look forward to is big time attrition and possibly getting into the right seat of a wide body and hold a block for a couple years for a decent pay check. Nic would allow someone almost new to jump into that widebody before me by tapping into attrition that I worked long and hard for. I understand what binding means but sometimes there are issues that are so wrong that they must be corrected for the future of this profession.

Sound like a lousy career to me, why stick around? Because your career stunk that has what to do with the west pilots and how arbitration turned out? Why try and make up for it from the west pilots?

If the only thing that you had to look forward to was attrition than I guess you guys should have fought a little harder for it or come off of DOH/LOS when the arbitrator told you to and started negotiating for some of that now where it was not before important attrition. How come attrition was never mentioned DURING the N/M/A but after it all of a sudden gained great value?

"Attrition that you worked long and hard for." Please give me a break. You did nothing for that attrition other than not screw up bad enough to get fired. It is people leaving that causes attrition not anything that you did, how can you possibly take any credit for attrition.

I agree some things are so wrong that they must be corrected. That will be the spanking and complete repudiation of USAPA and their entire misguided association crumbling around the founders and the east pilots that followed them into the depths of the lies and deceit.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

HP,

These are just my opinions. But I will say binding arbitrations became something of a "fad" back in the middle to later 70's. Maybe fad is the wrong word but I think you know what I mean. And it was a means to expedite issues between unions and their companies to save money. For both parties. As a result of this..it has become something of the norm to include this in union contracts. I, for one, don't agree with this for a number of reasons. One of which, is there is no wiggle room. There is no recourse. Which for me is a basic right within our justice system.

I don't think things should be put in the hands of one person....nor do I think that one person is the "end of the discussion".

Privacy isn't an issue here. Nor has it been. If it were, these discussions would have been gagged.

The public isn't that interested anyway and it's silly to think they would. That's a non issue.

Let the public see.....so what??? What's the big deal???

So, its a "fad" to agree to something and then wuss out of it? I hope you don't mind when the company thinks its a "fad" to promise something and not live up to it.

Such subjective ethics, I really wonder if you guys own a mirror.

I seem to remember that there was a time when you made an agreement and lived up to it, its called integrity.

 

[EastUS]

Uh, who cares about your opinion on binding arbitration,...

Naturally...umm..everyone cares about yours?

 

[EastUS]

It matters not that some west pilots were in school while easties were flying.

'
As in even 4th or 5th grade? :blink: ...So..It "matters not" to those out west?...Wow!...Ok then. I guess that's cleared up finally.....umm...well...it matters to a great many other people. I can assure you of that. I've yet to be involved with even so much as a single conversation with anyone not from your group, that responds with other than (at the very kindest and most printable) : "You've GOT to be kidding me!!??"

 

[EastUS]

Sound like a lousy career to me, why stick around? Because your career stunk that has what to do with the west pilots and how arbitration turned out? Why try and make up for it from the west pilots?

Please give me a break. You did nothing for that attrition other than not screw up bad enough to get fired. It is people leaving that causes attrition not anything that you did, how can you possibly take any credit for attrition.

I agree some things are so wrong that they must be corrected.

1) Coming from someone that, ahem, "chose" AWA to work for (I'm certain that all the majors were flooding you and your entire group with offers/etc)....well...pretty much anything then said about "your career stunk" is laughable in the extreme. On that last; Why don't you wait around another 20 years and then explain why you stuck around with this mess?...If there's even anything of it still operating by anything close to then.

2) "You did nothing for that attrition .." WTF have YOU ever done for that super "seniority"?..or really anything for that matter?

3) Agreed.

 

[EastUS]

Easy big guy. You don't want to give yourself a heart attack.

I'm honestly shocked. This kindess of heart represents the very first time I've seen it evidenced that so much as a single west pilot wouldn't do anything and everything to gain a seniority number boost on the list.

 

[john john]

Or perhaps you just want to abrogate agreements as you see fit when you don't get your way?

Why not this is what USAirways did
Just apart of business

 

[East Hole]

Sound like a lousy career to me, why stick around? Because your career stunk that has what to do with the west pilots and how arbitration turned out? Why try and make up for it from the west pilots?

If the only thing that you had to look forward to was attrition than I guess you guys should have fought a little harder for it or come off of DOH/LOS when the arbitrator told you to and started negotiating for some of that now where it was not before important attrition. How come attrition was never mentioned DURING the N/M/A but after it all of a sudden gained great value?

"Attrition that you worked long and hard for." Please give me a break. You did nothing for that attrition other than not screw up bad enough to get fired. It is people leaving that causes attrition not anything that you did, how can you possibly take any credit for attrition.

I agree some things are so wrong that they must be corrected. That will be the spanking and complete repudiation of USAPA and their entire misguided association crumbling around the founders and the east pilots that followed them into the depths of the lies and deceit.

WOW

 

[EastUS]

That will be the spanking and complete repudiation of USAPA and their entire misguided association crumbling around the founders and the east pilots that followed them into the depths of the lies and deceit.

Gasp!...The smell of brimstone's in the air!....I can almost see the cleft to Hell itself gaping wide!

 

[EastUS]

Recently I flew with a 57 yr old f/o. He began his flying career some 35 years ago as an officer in the USAF.

Sigh..then it's a sorry joke indeed that you're a "captain" over such a person...one that fails to make laugh. What's your point?..That you would like to see many, many more such absurd travesties enabled by merry old nic?

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

I , always luv these arguments, final and binding , integrity,yea, yea, yea, (that record is skiping again) truth of the matter, just for argument sake ,what if NIC had arbitrated PAY-RATES, duty rigs, between 2 MECS( for the sake of argument that no longer exist to the take it to AYE YES 3rd PARTY, that has the option to ACCEPT OR DENY IT! Then it has to be RATIFIED by those who will ultimetely work under it!( where the reject or accept phase comes in.) IF NIC said In a FINAL AND BINDING STATEMENT $50 an hour for captain and thats it well, you get the drift, besides the REAL 2 parties that were part of that DEAL, DON'T EXIST! AS much as I HATE IT! The " OLD DOGS" get it! MM!