Who wants a merger with US?

[MCI transplant]

LMAO. Oh yes, those damn passengers. Just think, if they would just go away and disappear we could all non rev every day to a new and exciting destination.

Geez Louise. (face palm) :blink:

<_< ------ Fact still remains that we the employees of the Airline Industry have been subsidizing public fares, because of deregulation, for years to the point that the Industry can no longer realistically function.------ Case in point. Look at the quality of service forty years ago, vrs. today! Only question in my mind is how much further will it go before something is finally done about it. And I do realise you can't turn back the clock! Enough said!

 

[UPNAWAY]

Wow, your lack of economic understanding is amazing. How do employees subsidize a customer? Would you like the gov't to tell airlines they must charge x amount (so you can be paid more than your worth)? Just the opposite is true, passengers did subsidize employees pay during regulation. How about airlines pay employees what the market dictates and then charges customers what the market will demand just like most industries?

 

[Hopeful]

. If given a choice, I'd go for 40% reduction in heads and keep the pay for those who remain.

Exactly what should've been done in 2003.

 

[wings396]

Wow, your lack of economic understanding is amazing. How do employees subsidize a customer? Would you like the gov't to tell airlines they must charge x amount (so you can be paid more than your worth)? Just the opposite is true, passengers did subsidize employees pay during regulation. How about airlines pay employees what the market dictates and then charges customers what the market will demand just like most industries?
[/quot


I think the point here is that the industry as a whole has been selling its product below a level to cover costs. If fares are at the same level they were 20 years ago, something is wrong. Tell me one thing that you can buy today for the same cost it was 20 years ago...

 

[BoeingBoy]

I think the point here is that the industry as a whole has been selling its product below a level to cover costs.

The point is that the legacies have chased market share for too long before they finally discovered that it's better to make money than to fly lots of people around at a loss. It wasn't "the industry as a whole" either - WN's had an annual profit for nearly 40 years - but they generally price their product to produce a profit instead of selling below cost tickets just for market share.

Jim

PS - computers, cell phones, HD TV's - that's three.

 

[traderjake]

If given a choice, I'd go for 40% reduction in heads and keep the pay for those who remain.

You must be in the upper 60%.

Let's go back to the days when only white collar workers could afford to fly on a regular basis so you don't have to deal with the great unwashed masses.

 

[MCI transplant]

You must be in the upper 60%.

Let's go back to the days when only white collar workers could afford to fly on a regular basis so you don't have to deal with the great unwashed masses.

<_< ------ Oh dear! We have another Obamanation in the house!!!

 

[EastCheats]

A few thoughts since I started this poll on April 8th. There was a clear majority of AA folks, I think upwards of 75% did not want a merger with US or would prefer to merge with another carrier. Now a sllim majority would like a majority would like a US/AA hookup.

It is of no surprise after Parker's meetings with the AA unions, that he has come in to save the day. I find myself more in agreement with those I go to battle with on the East who share the same skepticism of Parker. Hours after secretly meeting with potential employees of a merger, he is evasive to the actual employees of his un-merged US Airways. It goes well beyond the premise that he could not tell us anything at the Phoenix town hall because of the pending merger announcement. It is more like the same pattern we have all seen before. It's Doug Parker a disarming and likeable person in public but no different than a Horton or Crandall.

A merger is going to result in a reduction in capacity. It's a fact. People in Pittsburgh, Las Vegas and Boston know this all too well. How can he promise job security to one group of employees without compromising the job security of another? He can't. He preached US Airways was fine as a stand-alone while going to the bar to pick up another airline. He may look attractive at the bar but you may wake up the next morning to a nightmare we have lived since 2005.

We are still an unmerged airline with our own problems. I'd rather be represented by APA than USAPA. For that reason, I would be for the merger. On the other hand, I would like to see the courts resolve our seniority dispute. Either way, there will be problems and disputes that arise. The question is, is it a two way or a three way?

Finally, I think airline forums should have an AA/US Airways discussion area. SW/Airtran has a forum. Now that a potential merger is in the works, I think it would be a good idea for those who want to participate outside the AA or US forums.

 

[MCI transplant]

Wow, your lack of economic understanding is amazing. How do employees subsidize a customer? Would you like the gov't to tell airlines they must charge x amount (so you can be paid more than your worth)? Just the opposite is true, passengers did subsidize employees pay during regulation. How about airlines pay employees what the market dictates and then charges customers what the market will demand just like most industries?

<_< ------ Son, you are showing your ignorance. "Would you like the gov't to tell airlines they must charge x amount"? That's exactly what I'm saying! Know the history of your profession.---- Look up the history of the C.A.B.! There are industries in his country that are regulated, and others that "should be", for the good of the country. An example of a industry that is regulated is the Utility Company's. ----- Hey! Let's deregulate them! Let "the market determine how much your electric bill will be! Now that's a good idea!!! ------ If, you can't see where the "American" Airline industry is headed, you must be totally blind!!! Once there are only three major carriers in this country, and capacity is reduced, what do you think will happen to prices? What do you think you will pay if you want to fly from Flagstaff, AZ, to Bose ID? Of course we could just open up everything to foreign carriers!------ Fly from Flagstaff, to Bose, on China Air, for only $29.98 each way!!! Yea! Why not? That's the way to go!!!!

 

[Kellerguy]

A few thoughts since I started this poll on April 8th. There was a clear majority of AA flolks, I think upwards of 75% did not want a merger with US or would prefer to merge with another carrier. Now a sllim majority would like a majority would like a US/AA hookup.

Not when you remove all the USA folks coming over here and voting on what AAers want. I think over the course of the next few weeks, as we get more familiar with USA problems, history and long term chances to be successful, that will become more aparent. There will be pain, but the pain needs to be worth it in the long run. AA needs to be able to compete with everyone out there, not just the other two legacy carriers, otherwise we are just setting ourselves up for more of the same in another 6-7 years. So far I don't see it. I'm surprised APFA has stopped negotiating altogether, as they should get the last best offer more favorable prior to abrogation. Also the AA terms just may underestimate the savings. APAs real point so far seems to be AA will become its own ticketing business and not expand itself, offering growth opportunities. I think I'd like to see AA's management response to that.

 

[EastCheats]

Not when you remove all the USA folks coming over here and voting on what AAers want.

I agree with your observation. I was giving it time and waiting to make observations. I noticed a trend and the trend pointed towards a shift more in favor of a merger after Parker's meetings with the AA unions.

 

[Hopeful]

Not when you remove all the USA folks coming over here and voting on what AAers want. I think over the course of the next few weeks, as we get more familiar with USA problems, history and long term chances to be successful, that will become more aparent. There will be pain, but the pain needs to be worth it in the long run. AA needs to be able to compete with everyone out there, not just the other two legacy carriers, otherwise we are just setting ourselves up for more of the same in another 6-7 years. So far I don't see it. I'm surprised APFA has stopped negotiating altogether, as they should get the last best offer more favorable prior to abrogation. Also the AA terms just may underestimate the savings. APAs real point so far seems to be AA will become its own ticketing business and not expand itself, offering growth opportunities. I think I'd like to see AA's management response to that.

Everyone needs to realize that AA has until September to submit their own plan. It is their right under 1113.
Unless AA relents on the merger issue, we would not see anything substantial until then.

 

[dc10boy]

"I'm surprised APFA has stopped negotiating altogether, as they should get the last best offer more favorable prior to abrogation. "

I'm not sure sure I believe that.AA claimed a 600 million a yr. cost disadvantage prior to 11-29.Post 11-29 they are demanding 1.25 Billion in concessions.The company has not negotiated much at all according to all 3 unions. They are going through the motions with a "take it or leave it" attitude.So far, the last best offers have been just about the same as the 1113 demand sheets.Unacceptable.According to our TWU officials, the health care changes alone equate to a 5 to 8 dollar per hour pay cut depending on your current benefits and dependants.

 

[777 fixer]

However, remember the IAM could start a card drive hoping for discontent from disenfranchised TWU members and if they obtain enough signed cards, they could call for an election ( but this would take some time ).

They already are, not officially of course.

 

[wings396]

The point is that the legacies have chased market share for too long before they finally discovered that it's better to make money than to fly lots of people around at a loss. It wasn't "the industry as a whole" either - WN's had an annual profit for nearly 40 years - but they generally price their product to produce a profit instead of selling below cost tickets just for market share.

Jim

PS - computers, cell phones, HD TV's - that's three.

Needless to say all 3 are mass produced items made overseas at slave labor wages. Sad to say we are about in line with that same mentality. The industry has been
"Walmarted", and we know decent wages don't go along those lines. We are providing an American made product so to speak. I was around for the $19 fares that PE created, and nobody was making money on that. It was, and still is being done to draw in passengers from the competition, even if it isn't profitable. Granted things have changed somewhat with even SWA feeling the pinch of high fuel and increasing labor costs. They have been raising their fares to offset these costs a little at a time. Either way people need to realize what realistic prices are for airline travel. We have multi million dollar aircraft that are beiing purchased, mtc and fuel costs, along with airport rent, and labor of corse. If I could indeed buy a new car for 5k, the UAW guys would have to be working for about $7 an hour.