Why no contract from the Association?

[anotherdelay]

There us nothing about the iampf that we should NOT take serious. Nothing to joke about when invloves my retirement. I was hired by AA under the TWU with a AA pension. Now the IAM walks in the door under the association and wants to force me into their scam plan without a say.

I hate to sound like a broken record. But there is a law called due diligence. It applies here. Time we can get a petition to all TWU and even some Iam members to tell the these guys to stuff it.

 

[1AA]

If you wonder why the cap of 40 hours of contribution to the IAMPF, here is my take.

You can't contribute more so you have to work longer.

The longer you work the more the company contributes to the IAMPF.

The longer you work more union dues keep flowing to the IAM.

As long as the union dues and the pension contributions continue the better off the IAMPF and IAM finances are.

The company also keeps experienced workers on the payroll. It's a win, win, win situation for the company, IAM and IAMNPF. The only loser is the employee.

Thinks it's time to get rid of these thieves?
All I hear is we want a contract. Be careful what you wish for. It may come with a big price to pay. They won't back down from the IAMPF scam and we keep crying for a contract. We are heading down the road of disaster. We really need to get some kind of card drive going and distance ourselves as far as possible from this scam. Wake up and spread the word. It's our future and the future of the guys behind us who will be close to retirement age with nothing to retire too.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

There us nothing about the iampf that we should NOT take serious. Nothing to joke about when invloves my retirement. I was hired by AA under the TWU with a AA pension. Now the IAM walks in the door under the association and wants to force me into their scam plan without a say.

I agree with you it is a serious problem. It should be taken seriously. However I wonder if the current TWU side of the Association has the courage to do what needs to be done. History is not encouraging.

 

[1AA]

How do we play into this equation?

https://www.thestreet.com/story/141...n-to-pay-workers-what-other-airlines-pay.html

 

[Deleted member 14439]

How do we play into this equation?

https://www.thestreet.com/story/141...n-to-pay-workers-what-other-airlines-pay.html

We don't...

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

TWU?

No.

Texas Women's University.

Maybe they can sue them and fund the IAMNPF?

 

[Bob Owens]

The short answer is I don't care what they brought back Bob. I care what the membership accepted. I care that they saddled me with a B pay scale because they were offered some perk to do so. There is no UNITY in the TWU.

While I'm not absolving the YES voters, Leadership does have a role, and unknown to the membership our Leadership at the International was accepting perks worth millions of dollars from the company for many years. The fact is the Leadership of this Union led the members down this path. There is no Unity because the Leadership made every effort to ensure there would never be. The leadership chose a structure that would keep us divided and that structure remains in place to this day.

"Why are you even bringing up loss of vacation and holidays Bob when I was talking about the B Scale senior people saddled the juniors with.

Was that a weak attempt at deflection?"

Because it supports my claim that we had people on the take who sold us out. They claimed they came up with these concessions to save Jobs, If you eliminate Vacation time you cut jobs, every 50 weeks lost is another job eliminated, same with the Holidays and sick time, neither of these Concessions saved jobs, so why where they there? Would Jim Little have agreed to these things if he was a worker? I doubt it. How did they get it to pass, because they said if they didn't get everything they wanted, which was more than any competitor got IN BANKRUPTCY they would go Bankrupt and outsource all of Overhaul. As we now know they could not have done that at that time because the outsourced market was already saturated and even after BK Tulsa is still there, albeit much much smaller due mainly to new aircraft that our concessions funded.



"What did the mechanics get for accepting the Junior Mechanic program?"

Junior mechanic was in place long before I got here. It was an industry norm from the very beginning as far as I know. I'm not against a Junior Mechanic program but it has to be strictly controlled through contractual language, and we would need to eliminate all the step raises. In other words get hired as a Junior at one rate , upon passing the trade test you become a mechanic at Top rate like everyone else. Prior to the 80s it was was a two year progression to Top Rate. Having us all at Top rate eliminates another divisive weakness, adjusting the term to get a contract to pass. Look at what the company recently did, they screwed att the guys in the High Cost cities who were hired under the Flex rate and added several years to below top rate pay. Many would not have taken the job if they knew that was possible, it has been a divisive issue.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

While I'm not absolving the YES voters, Leadership does have a role, and unknown to the membership our Leadership at the International was accepting perks worth millions of dollars from the company for many years. The fact is the Leadership of this Union led the members down this path. There is no Unity because the Leadership made every effort to ensure there would never be. The leadership chose a structure that would keep us divided and that structure remains in place to this day.

I would say with the Association it is even worse.

Because it supports my claim that we had people on the take who sold us out. They claimed they came up with these concessions to save Jobs, If you eliminate Vacation time you cut jobs, every 50 weeks lost is another job eliminated, same with the Holidays and sick time, neither of these Concessions saved jobs, so why where they there? Would Jim Little have agreed to these things if he was a worker? I doubt it. How did they get it to pass, because they said if they didn't get everything they wanted, which was more than any competitor got IN BANKRUPTCY they would go Bankrupt and outsource all of Overhaul. As we now know they could not have done that at that time because the outsourced market was already saturated and even after BK Tulsa is still there, albeit much much smaller due mainly to new aircraft that our concessions funded.

Let someone like Hillary Clinton get in there with their open borders BS and see how long that last.

Junior mechanic was in place long before I got here. It was an industry norm from the very beginning as far as I know. I'm not against a Junior Mechanic program but it has to be strictly controlled through contractual language, and we would need to eliminate all the step raises. In other words get hired as a Junior at one rate , upon passing the trade test you become a mechanic at Top rate like everyone else. Prior to the 80s it was was a two year progression to Top Rate. Having us all at Top rate eliminates another divisive weakness, adjusting the term to get a contract to pass. Look at what the company recently did, they screwed att the guys in the High Cost cities who were hired under the Flex rate and added several years to below top rate pay. Many would not have taken the job if they knew that was possible, it has been a divisive issue.

Sounds to me like the employees of American Airlines need to hit the reset button.

 

[Bob Owens]

If you wonder why the cap of 40 hours of contribution to the IAMPF, here is my take.

You can't contribute more so you have to work longer.

The longer you work the more the company contributes to the IAMPF.

The longer you work more union dues keep flowing to the IAM.

As long as the union dues and the pension contributions continue the better off the IAMPF and IAM finances are.

The company also keeps experienced workers on the payroll. It's a win, win, win situation for the company, IAM and IAMNPF. The only loser is the employee.

Thinks it's time to get rid of these thieves?
All I hear is we want a contract. Be careful what you wish for. It may come with a big price to pay. They won't back down from the IAMPF scam and we keep crying for a contract. We are heading down the road of disaster. We really need to get some kind of card drive going and distance ourselves as far as possible from this scam. Wake up and spread the word. It's our future and the future of the guys behind us who will be close to retirement age with nothing to retire too.

Working longer also means receiving less in benefits, it also helps the company with the shortage they created, it also makes the Association harder to get rid of because they will make some false claims about the Pension. Again, I see a huge motive to roll us into the IAMNPF for credits. I beleive we would lose our ability to retire at 60 without penalty, and 55 with 3% per year. Most of the guys around here retire before 65, many in their 50s, this would keep us all here until 65, even worse than losing Retiree Medical because some can pick that up throgh their spouse.

 

[Bob Owens]

I would say with the Association it is even worse.

Let someone like Hillary Clinton get in there with their open borders BS and see how long that last.

Sounds to me like the employees of American Airlines need to hit the reset button.

Yes its worse under the Association, there is almost zero chance of Unity being coordinated between two Unions that had difficulty getting it as single Unions. Both Unions have seen serious decertification drives, the IAM even saw an election, both had to use lies and fear tactics to stay in place. Neither has tried to correct the problems that led to those drives, instead they chose to viciously attack their very own members. They attack, isolate and further alienate their members for legitimate complaints and then feign a call for Unity. Then when nobody shows up or votes they blame the membership.

 

[swamt]

If you wonder why the cap of 40 hours of contribution to the IAMPF, here is my take.

You can't contribute more so you have to work longer.

The longer you work the more the company contributes to the IAMPF.

The longer you work more union dues keep flowing to the IAM.

As long as the union dues and the pension contributions continue the better off the IAMPF and IAM finances are.

The company also keeps experienced workers on the payroll. It's a win, win, win situation for the company, IAM and IAMNPF. The only loser is the employee.

Thinks it's time to get rid of these thieves?
All I hear is we want a contract. Be careful what you wish for. It may come with a big price to pay. They won't back down from the IAMPF scam and we keep crying for a contract. We are heading down the road of disaster. We really need to get some kind of card drive going and distance ourselves as far as possible from this scam. Wake up and spread the word. It's our future and the future of the guys behind us who will be close to retirement age with nothing to retire too.

Wow! I did not know that the pensions were worked that way. Even a better reason to blow off the pensions and go with 401K's. At least with the 401K every bit of our % goes in as well as the companies match even over the normal 40 hours including any and all overtime, extra days (giveaways), sick time, vac and holiday pay all goes towards retirement. Which I do like as then you really could retire early if you wanted to with the catch-up plan after 50 years old. I still do not know all the ins and outs of your pensions but just reading what you guys have provided should really be scaring the entire membership about this pension that probably won't even make it past 2025. Go with the match 401K if you can with at least a 6-8% match or better from the company, more control by the individual not the union that you can never get rid of since they have you in this pension, that's another big reason they will force (try to force) you guys into their pension fund.

 

[1AA]

Wow! I did not know that the pensions were worked that way. Even a better reason to blow off the pensions and go with 401K's. At least with the 401K every bit of our % goes in as well as the companies match even over the normal 40 hours including any and all overtime, extra days (giveaways), sick time, vac and holiday pay all goes towards retirement. Which I do like as then you really could retire early if you wanted to with the catch-up plan after 50 years old. I still do not know all the ins and outs of your pensions but just reading what you guys have provided should really be scaring the entire membership about this pension that probably won't even make it past 2025. Go with the match 401K if you can with at least a 6-8% match or better from the company, more control by the individual not the union that you can never get rid of since they have you in this pension, that's another big reason they will force (try to force) you guys into their pension fund.

This was explained to me by a USAIR tech ops guy. We got into a detailed conversation. There is more but I only remembered the highlights. I doubt any of the restrictions have changed since we spoke several months back. I keep telling guys that the iampf is part of the equation for the creation of the association. Unfortunately we have thick headed dumb asses that still are in denial and listen to the twu. All I hear is we want a contract. The 5 extra holidays and doubletime seem to be more important than the future of our retirement. Financially we are screwed if we get forced in the iampf scam.

 

[1AA]

Could American Airlines become another Enron?

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/30388061_The_Airlines_Efficiency_Myth

 

[WeAAsles]

This was explained to me by a USAIR tech ops guy. We got into a detailed conversation. There is more but I only remembered the highlights. I doubt any of the restrictions have changed since we spoke several months back. I keep telling guys that the iampf is part of the equation for the creation of the association. Unfortunately we have thick headed dumb asses that still are in denial and listen to the twu. All I hear is we want a contract. The 5 extra holidays and doubletime seem to be more important than the future of our retirement. Financially we are screwed if we get forced in the iampf scam.

1AA you originally posed a question and then posted what appeared to be an attempt to link to this paper analysis. Reading through the conclusion and to your credit it looks like a good query. (It's about airline outsourcing efficiencies)

https://www.academia.edu/4199658/The_Airlines_Efficiency_Myth

 

[WeAAsles]

Could American Airlines become another Enron?

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/30388061_The_Airlines_Efficiency_Myth

Ok there it is. Thumbs up. Good post.