Why there will never be a T.A.

[NYer]

When the company has "is able to" such as outsource written in the contract it is my experience they do.So consider that "will" outsour e

Language is part of the consideration.

The TWU CBA currently has language that says "will" outsource certain stations by Sept. 11, by your beliefs that means we'll lose 4 more stations.

 

[Racer X]

A comprehensive proposal is the sum of its parts. Some of those parts have been made public thereby making it difficult to change one in order to make another part better.

At this point, most want the parts that have been shown the light of day. How do we make other parts better if the expectation by the Mediator is for us to move towards the airline rather than the airline move towards us.

What has been made public is the company’s offer. If that were the case, the company should put out 5 weeks vacation , 7 sick days, 7 holidays, 2x pay as is... in IAM book etc. That would mean we couldn’t chang any of that?? Its negotiations.. not a one sided dictatorship.

 

[WeAAsles]

A comprehensive proposal is the sum of its parts. Some of those parts have been made public thereby making it difficult to change one in order to make another part better.

At this point, most want the parts that have been shown the light of day. How do we make other parts better if the expectation by the Mediator is for us to move towards the airline rather than the airline move towards us.

You do realize again that since they are up to essentially just the economics left the NMB may not even immediately assign a Mediator to conclude the talks?

Again you seem to have more of an obsession over Mediation than “maybe” you should?

It seems clear to me that you have no interest in entering that venue. Thus the Company can use that against you. I know I would.

 

[ALUS78]

Language is part of the consideration.

The TWU CBA currently has language that says "will" outsource certain stations by Sept. 11, by your beliefs that means we'll lose 4 more stations.

Possible they do have a history.Shouldnt be worded that way in any contract.Id hate to be in one of those cities looking over my shoulder

 

[ALUS78]

You do realize again that since they are up to essentially just the economics left the NMB may not even immediately assign a Mediator to conclude the talks?

Again you seem to have more of an obsession over Mediation than “maybe” you should?

It seems clear to me that you have no interest in entering that venue. Thus the Company can use that against you. I know I would.

Weez do you think they will schedule negotiations throughout the summer or will this week make or break?

 

[Steve Walegir]

Language is part of the consideration.

The TWU CBA currently has language that says "will" outsource certain stations by Sept. 11, by your beliefs that means we'll lose 4 more stations.

If they want to be pricks they could close my station in Sept and there is nothing in my contract stopping them. I personally like words of certainty, maybe not the outcome

 

[Racer X]

Language is part of the consideration.

The TWU CBA currently has language that says "will" outsource certain stations by Sept. 11, by your beliefs that means we'll lose 4 more stations.

NYer
Where is that language? ( what article, page?)

 

[WeAAsles]

A comprehensive proposal is the sum of its parts. Some of those parts have been made public thereby making it difficult to change one in order to make another part better.

At this point, most want the parts that have been shown the light of day. How do we make other parts better if the expectation by the Mediator is for us to move towards the airline rather than the airline move towards us.

I think the 3% considering the PS being so measly in comparison to DL and UAL still leaves some wiggle room in regards to seeing further improvements elsewhere?

 

[NYer]

What has been made public is the company’s offer. If that were the case, the company should put out 5 weeks vacation , 7 sick days, 7 holidays, 2x pay as is... in IAM book etc. That would mean we couldn’t chang any of that?? Its negotiations.. not a one sided dictatorship.

OK. They out 10 holidays at 2.5.

Do you believe we could change that to 7 days a 2x so we can adjust something somewhere else?

Making the 10 and 2.5 numbers public it has basically caked those numbers as the base or an agreement with the Members that have seen it. The same holds true for the other things.

That being the case, what can be changed within a comprehensive proposal to move towards the airline positions as would be expected in Section 6.

 

[ALUS78]

If they want to be pricks they could close my station in Sept and there is nothing in my contract stopping them. I personally like words of certainty, maybe not the outcome

Sucks living with that possibility

 

[WeAAsles]

I don’t think so...if it comes with a VOTE NO recommendation, it would be because even though the JCBA would be considered “sub par” to the NCs, the Association would be legally obligated (forced) to put it out. Naturally if forced to put it out, without the improvements or language that The NC wanted, IMO it would come with a Recommendation of NO.
On the other hand, if the NC feels like there are enough positives to Accept a TA and put out for ratification...That IMO would come with a YES Recommendation.

Racer I’m assuming that you mean much further down the line in the process under Section 6 with perhaps Congressional intervention the Association could be forced to put something out for a vote?

Otherwise under what Law or signed agreement could the Association be forced?

 

[737823]

NYer
Where is that language? ( what article, page?)

Article 1C

Page 1 (as pagitated on the bottom); page 5 of 213 on the PDF

LOA is page 7 (as pagitated on the bottom); page 11 of 213 on the PDF

http://local502.twuatd.org/wp-content/uploads/file/aa_FleetServiceAgreement.pdf

Josh

 

[WeAAsles]

Weez do you think they will schedule negotiations throughout the summer or will this week make or break?

Well Al all I’m doing here is giving my buddy NYer more ammo to criticize me if I’m wrong but you know I’ve always been an unwavering cockeyed optimist anyway.

I don’t think this week but I think they will present final offers and we will vote on them before going into the formality of Section 6.

What’s your opinion?

 

[WeAAsles]

Possible they do have a history.Shouldnt be worded that way in any contract.Id hate to be in one of those cities looking over my shoulder

That language exists because of the Bankruptcy. Just like language existing in every single contracts for every single group at every airline that went through the Court system.

 

[NYer]

NYer
Where is that language? ( what article, page?)

"...
Those stations will remain staffed, with TWU represented Fleet Service employees, so long as the annual departures are at or above 2555 from the effective date of this agreement up to the day prior to the amendable date...Beyond the amendable date, Article 1(c) will apply."

1(c) "The Company will continue to assign American Airlines TWU represented employees in classifications designated by the Company to all stations wherein such TWU represented employees are assigned currently with 5475 and above annual departures..."

As of the last look back, there are 4 stations under the 5475. Of the 4, 1 has no IAM in the station so it can be outsourced outright. The other 3 may be protected by the cross-utilization agreement but only those hired before 08.04.16 are protected.

All this of course is predicated on their use of the word "will" and the belief if it's there, they'll use it.