Why there will never be a T.A.

[ALUS78]

The Company will use any and all means at their disposal to gauge and craft their proposals. There is no need for strategy.

They’re on every Social Media page and in every break room gathering information.

If enough people fall in line to what they’re pushing out then it’s over and they have no need for any further movement. They can and will produce all the proof they have collected to show that the will of the Membership has been broken and they are ready to relent.

You make it sound like the company is planning Operation Overlord.I don't think you need a great mind to win this battle,the numbers are with the TWU,just make them happy

 

[WeAAsles]

They take the big picture point of view, they consider corporate America and other airlines as a point of reference. They know where we all stood when they were involved and where we stand now.

All these incremental moves the airline has made towards us may seem trivial but it sets a pattern of them moving towards us while we don't seem to move towards them.

After they get all the financial stuff out in the public like compensation & retirement, what will be left? Scope & Medical.

Where will the Mediator expect our movement to come from? Or do we just say no to everything?

You almost sound as if you are making an accusation that the Association has received formal proposals from the Company? As of yet none of us have read that they have.

You also come off as if you know there will be more improvements in that the “Company” will be sharing “publicly” further financial gains to compensation and retirement? What makes you so sure of that?

And to say that the Association Negotiators are saying no to everything is disingenuous. If that were true then 90% of the Contracts wouldn’t already be completed.

Again with the items you’ve mentioned have they even been presented anything formally to say no to?

 

[WeAAsles]

Most would want the cheaper medical but it won't happen. This airline has worked for 10 years to get everyone in the same medical and they're one group away.

Some say this is a different airline and there is a new management team, which is true. What's also true is those new Executives are now saying the same things the last Executives team said about the medical.

Again and again and again and again you need to be reminded that what you say is the EXACT same story that went on over at LUS regarding those Medical expenses.

And those are many of the SAME Managers that wanted those Medical expenses to be raised probably going back even longer than 10 years now.

But of course “IF” there is enough offered in other areas they “MAY” decide to relent to granting the 21% of the total cost being blanketed over them?

Again it’s not about plans, it’s about costs.

 

[NYer]

I don't take issue with paying a larger portion of my care. The issue I have is the coverage is greatly inferior in the AA plan. If I go to a specialist now I pay a$40 copays. Period. With the Standard plan, I would pay %20 of the bill. In many cases, just an office visit costs $600 leaving you with a $120 bill!

Few would argue.

We were all making the same arguments at the time we went into the current LAA plans.

 

[WeAAsles]

I don't take issue with paying a larger portion of my care. The issue I have is the coverage is greatly inferior in the AA plan. If I go to a specialist now I pay a$40 copays. Period. With the Standard plan, I would pay %20 of the bill. In many cases, just an office visit costs $600 leaving you with a $120 bill!

There is no reason even with Healthcare costs continuing to climb in the US that the Company can’t offer some relief against their 21% general standard across the system.

What is also needed is a Union monitoring of their Healthcare expenses through audit. The Company has implemented all sorts of wellness programs and has been shifting to a younger workforce that will ABSOLUTELY bring down their overall Medical expenditures.

We need concrete monitoring that those savings are passed onto us the Employees and not shifted back into the Company coffers.

 

[WeAAsles]

You make it sound like the company is planning Operation Overlord.I don't think you need a great mind to win this battle,the numbers are with the TWU,just make them happy

Again Al it doesn’t matter how happy they want to make me if your Negotiators stand firm not to allow me and my group to vote on something which the Association Constitution gives them 100% right not to do.

 

[WeAAsles]

Few would argue.

We were all making the same arguments at the time we went into the current LAA plans.

Your arguments were made against a Bankruptcy gun so don’t try to conflate the situations today.

We went to 21% in and because of the LAA Bankruptcy.

 

[Racer X]

They take the big picture point of view, they consider corporate America and other airlines as a point of reference. They know where we all stood when they were involved and where we stand now.

All these incremental moves the airline has made towards us may seem trivial but it sets a pattern of them moving towards us while we don't seem to move towards them.

After they get all the financial stuff out in the public like compensation & retirement, what will be left? Scope & Medical.

Where will the Mediator expect our movement to come from? Or do we just say no to everything?

I would consider Medical and scope

 

[Racer X]

I would consider Medical and scope

Sorry...sent the above by accident.
I would consider medical and scope to be part of the total financial package as well...
I don’t see part of the finances being done with part left undone. I think it all ties together....retirement, wage, scope, medical.
One effects the other which effects the other,, etc

 

[NYer]

Sorry...sent the above by accident.
I would consider medical and scope to be part of the total financial package as well...
I don’t see part of the finances being done with part left undone. I think it all ties together....retirement, wage, scope, medical.
One effects the other which effects the other,, etc

Understood.

In a contractual context is where these are listed in separate articles, Compensation, Scope, Medical, Pension.

The airline has publicly made their positions in Compensation and Pension. That being the case, it would be difficult to adjust those to make improvements in Medical and Scope.

So, if the Association has to move towards the airline it would need to be in those two areas unless they're willing to pull back elsewhere and face the backlash for the sake of the medical and scope.

 

[Steve Walegir]

There is no reason even with Healthcare costs continuing to climb in the US that the Company can’t offer some relief against their 21% general standard across the system.

What is also needed is a Union monitoring of their Healthcare expenses through audit. The Company has implemented all sorts of wellness programs and has been shifting to a younger workforce that will ABSOLUTELY bring down their overall Medical expenditures.

We need concrete monitoring that those savings are passed onto us the Employees and not shifted back into the Company coffers.

Ok I'm putting on my tin foil hat but imo the biggest part of getting out of the LUS IAM medical is the whole single payer plan. You mentioned "The Company has implemented all sorts of wellness programs" personally I will pass on each and every one of them. I will give the company no information about me. All the wellness I need i get from my primary care doctor. It all boils down to them (AA) being our insurance company and all those freely given health/wellness free giveaway of health information will come back to hurt you later. I am willing to wait and fight for the better insurance but I'm not sure the association as a whole has the stomach for the fight. And NYer is pretty much on point, the company is/has been playing this perfectly for the ultimate visit by the mediator. Time will tell but it makes sense to me. It's all a game and the company will get what they want ultimately. Can we get the percentage lowered? I hope so but that will be for a few years at most. Long term we will all have the AA medical and probably close to 30-40% of the cost

 

[WeAAsles]

Ok I'm putting on my tin foil hat but imo the biggest part of getting out of the LUS IAM medical is the whole single payer plan. You mentioned "The Company has implemented all sorts of wellness programs" personally I will pass on each and every one of them. I will give the company no information about me. All the wellness I need i get from my primary care doctor. It all boils down to them (AA) being our insurance company and all those freely given health/wellness free giveaway of health information will come back to hurt you later. I am willing to wait and fight for the better insurance but I'm not sure the association as a whole has the stomach for the fight. And NYer is pretty much on point, the company is/has been playing this perfectly for the ultimate visit by the mediator. Time will tell but it makes sense to me. It's all a game and the company will get what they want ultimately. Can we get the percentage lowered? I hope so but that will be for a few years at most. Long term we will all have the AA medical and probably close to 30-40% of the cost

Steve not all of the Wellness programs require you to divulge any of your personal information although I’ve never quite understood how they don’t have much of it already when you make a claim for payment for procedures?

As far as eating crappy food, not exercising and smoking I guess those can be hidden from the Company to a degree.

Anyway just off the top of my head I can think of 2 they implemented. First the entire Company is now a No Smoking area. Even if most flaunt it some have decided to go for it and join in (Me for instance) and the Work Fit program going around the system is the other one.

BTW you really trust that Primary Care Doctor either. He certainly asks lots of questions about you doesn’t he.

And I’ve seen what some of these Mediators look like and I’m personally not seeing Rambo or The Terminator popping through any of those doorways, lmao.

 

[Vortilon]

driver I think it’s very nice that you want to show respect to these guys. But look at them. They can’t even figure out what they want to do anymore? They’re totally directionless.

They don’t want any what they call Industrial Unions. So they don’t want TWU, IAM, or IBT. They barely talk AMFA anymore cause they do see what’s happening over at your Airline. So now they’re dredging up an idea (Maybe a really good one) that they gave up on almost 4 years ago.

There’s a Go Fund Me account that’s been started up that says something about a Card Drive but it doesn’t even mention with WHO??? All it says to me is “Hey give me some money and we’ll figure it out later” WTF? Seriously.

Anyway those guys are the Diehards I guess? The ones who are going to remain floating out at sea until their boat sinks. Not many of them left though IMO.

Yeah, it's all a big joke. In three days, close to 1000 M&R "Diehards" have signed up.

 

[WeAAsles]

So, if the Association has to move towards the airline it would need to be in those two areas unless they're willing to pull back elsewhere and face the backlash for the sake of the medical and scope.

As I recall in both a personal video and during one of the Townhalls Gary Peterson did state that he understands that this is Negotiations and that neither side is going to get everything they want.

To me that sounds like the comments of a reasonable man although you may disagree?

If you’ve done the Math in all actuality and in total against our direct competitor on wages, retirement and Profit Sharing especially we aren’t completely on par.

We are being undercompensated in regards to the Profit Sharing formula percentage which you are well aware of. So to me there possibly is where you find the Money to subsidize that lowering of the Medical percentage perhaps even for the entire Company?

I personally would have no issue with even foregoing any Profit Sharing at all since it never really interested me to begin with for improvements to other areas such as the Medical.

 

[WeAAsles]

Yeah, it's all a big joke. In three days, close to 1000 M&R "Diehards" have signed up.

Well in the last 2 days the money has been coming in quite nicely to be honest. So if you guys have FINALLY begun a Card Drive and have some “real” momentum going with someone the only thing I can say is

“Well it’s about F’n time”

And at the end of the day if the Majority of your total Membership chose to ride off somewhere into the sunset, Congratulations and Good Luck.

Keep sharing this link BTW.

https://www.gofundme.com/9wqx2-eliminate-the-association