Why there will never be a T.A.

[WeAAsles]

Dual representation you call it. Do you think we're possibly engaged in Dual unionism?


From Wikipedia:

Dual unionism is the development of a union or political organization parallel to and within an existing labor union. In some cases, the term may refer to the situation where two unions claim the right to organize the same workers.

Dual unionism is sometimes considered to be destructive to solidarity essential to the orderly functioning of labor unions and the exercise of their power vis-a-vis the employer.

Many countries outlaw dual unionism in their national, state or local labor relations acts. Many unions also outlaw dual unionism as part of their constitutions.

However, some labor unions and political organizations advocate dual unionism as a means of survival or as a strategy for winning political power. The Industrial Workers of the World, for example, advocates dual unionism (although the behavior is called 'dual cardism').[1] Such organizations and/or unions argue that dual unionism may be compatible with the goals of the union and therefore not a hindrance to the union. Labor parties which incorporate unions into their structures and social movement unionism, it is argued[by whom?], are examples where political organizations co-exist constructively with unions.

The distinction between dual unionism and mere internal politics is often not clear. Many unions have political factions or caucuses which disagree on the policies, finances, values and goals of the union. But internal politics rarely rise to the level of dual unionism. In certain cases, where the situation is unclear, whether an action actually constitutes dual unionism must be resolved politically (e.g., by the exercise of power) within the union.

Rogallo all I know is when you live on an Ocean you better swim with the tide or you’re more than likely going to drown.

You have an issue that you want to fight and you’ve been fighting for it for a very long time. Nothing wrong with that if it floats your boat.

Hey I will say that I do appreciate that you put up both sides of the debate from that Wiki page. I’ll be damned if I know long term if this Association was a blessing or a curse. Either way to use a word you’d I’m sure agree with for now we’re “stuck” with it.

 

[B737 driver]

Nothing is going to happen. If your talking about a card drive then solve this problem. Some want the TWU, some want the IAM and some will still want the IBT. There will be a card drive if things continue at this pace. We all need to be on the same page. I see mediaton before a successful card drive. The comany can't afford to lose their toy lapdog association. The association can't afford to lose union dues. Until we all wake up it will be challenging and business as usual.

I would say to the AMFA dreamers at American, you will probably end up with the TWU, If it was between the Teamsters, IAM, TWU, and AMFA.

 

[Rogallo]

Rogallo all I know is when you live on an Ocean you better swim with the tide or you’re more than likely going to drown.

You have an issue that you want to fight and you’ve been fighting for it for a very long time. Nothing wrong with that if it floats your boat.

Hey I will say that I do appreciate that you put up both sides of the debate from that Wiki page. I’ll be damned if I know long term if this Association was a blessing or a curse. Either way to use a word you’d I’m sure agree with for now we’re “stuck” with it.

We are only stuck with it if we allow ourselves to be stuck with it. But I'm sure some are just content with the association, but the lack of unity there is at stations where both unions are represented is very disappointing.

"You Are The Union"

 

[WeAAsles]

We are only stuck with it if we allow ourselves to be stuck with it. But I'm sure some are just content with the association, but the lack of unity there is at stations where both unions are represented is very disappointing.

"You Are The Union"

Actually someone was just nice enough to inform me that they would send me an Association T Shirt.

So maybe I’ll try to support it instead of throwing rocks at it.

You can make your own Unity.

 

[Rogallo]

Actually someone was just nice enough to inform me that they would send me an Association T Shirt.

So maybe I’ll try to support it instead of throwing rocks at it.

You can make your own Unity.

Wear it with pride!

Now, back to the original question. It's fairly simple. A yes or no answer will suffice.

Is dual unionism happening?

 

[WeAAsles]

Wear it with pride!

Now, back to the original question. It's fairly simple. A yes or no answer will suffice.

Is dual unionism happening?

Yes.

Now does a simple answer satify the “gotcha” need or can I expand on my answer?

Your choice? A yes or no answer will suffice.

 

[Rogallo]

Thank you. Please expand and enlighten us with your view on the situation. You usually do!

 

[WeAAsles]

Thank you. Please expand and enlighten us with your view on the situation. You usually do!

I think the dual unionism is coming more from the floor up than the other way around. We’re creating contests saying that we’re larger than one side and they should lose things while the other side plays against us with Ha Ha you don’t have what we have.

IMO if we don’t support each other we’re BOTH going to lose. IAM loses great Medical costs and TWU loses great jobs. Those two seem to be the main banners people are flying out there.

No enlightening. Just one guy’s opinion.

 

[B737 driver]

I think the dual unionism is coming more from the floor up than the other way around. We’re creating contests saying that we’re larger than one side and they should lose things while the other side plays against us with Ha Ha you don’t have what we have.

IMO if we don’t support each other we’re BOTH going to lose. IAM loses great Medical costs and TWU loses great jobs. Those two seem to be the main banners people are flying out there.

No enlightening. Just one guy’s opinion.

I would tend to agree with you, until the IAM side, gets tired of not having a raise, they will do everything to protect their pension and medical. This is even with the TWU able to outvote them.

 

[bob@las-AA]

Wear it with pride!

Now, back to the original question. It's fairly simple. A yes or no answer will suffice.

Is dual unionism happening?

Who cares, I mean really.

 

[WeAAsles]

I would tend to agree with you, until the IAM side, gets tired of not having a raise, they will do everything to protect their pension and medical. This is even with the TWU able to outvote them.

Well if giving up the Medical and Pension makes it a concessionary Contract for them I can’t understand why anyone would think they’d accept that?

With or without the Association agreement why should they accept concessions?

 

[title 2]

The IAM should have packed up and went away . One company one union .We do not advertise USair and AA why would you have IAM and TWU in the same organization.

 

[737823]

The IAM should have packed up and went away . One company one union .We do not advertise USair and AA why would you have IAM and TWU in the same organization.

Too many high paid unaccountable and ‘effectively’ unelected people who want to slurp their six figure cushy jobs, positive space passes, health care, etc.

The assault on workers has been going on for decades but the unions only began fighting when the attacks target their institutions.

Josh

 

[B737 driver]

Well if giving up the Medical and Pension makes it a concessionary Contract for them I can’t understand why anyone would think they’d accept that?

With or without the Association agreement why should they accept concessions?

What's considered concessions to them, would not be concessions to the American side, such as your double time restored, more holidays, a raise, limits on part timers, a 401k match of say 9 to 10%. They are going to be on the American medical insurance anyway, plus American doesn't want the pension plan to begin with. So you're not going to get there with the IAM help, even though you outvote them.

 

[WeAAsles]

What's considered concessions to them, would not be concessions to the American side, such as your double time restored, more holidays, a raise, limits on part timers, a 401k match of say 9 to 10%. They are going to be on the American medical insurance anyway, plus American doesn't want the pension plan to begin with. So you're not going to get there with the IAM help, even though you outvote them.

Can you show me where anyone has agreed in writing that the IAM Members are going to be paying far more for their Medical than they do today?

Why should they support us gaining things if we don’t support them keeping things?

This idea alone is NUTS man.

And I’m not looking to outvote anyone. I’m not their enemy or their bully.