13% for UAL mechanics, 17.5 for us!

[air_guy]

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On 4/9/2003 11:36:55 AM Bob Owens wrote:

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On 4/9/2003 11:33:18 AM air_guy wrote:

Thats for UAL ramp and food service. Mechanics are not a done deal yet. Even if the paycut looks lower they are giving more on rules specialy outsourcing. That = more layoffs. Make your decision based on the whole package not just pieces.

There upsides in BK are pure speculation and best wishes, but there is one concrete downside ..... it puts us one step closer to liquidation.

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More than likely much of what they are giving up now we gave away 30 years ago.


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That once again is speculation.... I think they will outsource now some cargo operations. For mechanics so far they are asking to outsocurce some heavy maintenance. I haven''t seen the actual terms yet so I am quoting things from the 1113 United filed. The 1113 valued the changes at 473 ant they are settling at 445 so there are some differences. It will be sad to see this company go out of business because of people being misinformed....

 

[RV4]

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On 4/9/2003 12:39:49 PM KCFlyer wrote:


RV-4 - my avoiding AA is due in large part to YOUR postings. You need me more than I need you. But you are doing a fine job of sending my travel dollars elsewhere. I hope for your sake that you can find similar success in persuading the bankruptcy judge.
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How many sympathy stories of blame do you have?

If you have left AA because of an internet posting, you ale likely a bigger fool than just having belief that the Pilot is flying your aircraft.

Again, I wish the customer would respect our right to hash this out ourselves without whimpering interference while claiming concern for their own wallet, and then claiming they already quit flying AA.

 

[KCFlyer]

But....what''s your definition of "last day"? BTW - would you please cite any one of my posts where I said anything WANTING you guys to take a cut? I think all I''ve done is ask that you look at your companies current position, and how that stacks up in todays environment. You''ve offered two ideas: 1) Full pay until the last day and 2) I''m better off in front of the bankruptcy judge. The solution lies somewhere in between.

 

[RV4]

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On 4/9/2003 1:24:42 PM KCFlyer wrote:


But....what''s your definition of "last day"?
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I dont define the last day, I just live it.

 

[flyhigh]

Wow, ignorance is bliss. Thank god for Air Guy''s statement. This granualr focus on the changes is amazing. Do you folks really think the company, any company at that, looks at employee costs as only pay? Hate to fill you in, but they don''t. They look at total cost and efficiency. Just because UA''s guys are losing a smaller percentage doesn''t mean a damn thing. As some questions first:
1) How much is UA lowering it''s total cost of this part of the workforce by? On a % of total basis?
2) How many people will it take to run the airline now (per aircraft)? Where is AA in comparison? Where is the rest of the competition?
3) ..and most important...Can you prove that what UA is cutting is enough to turn the company around and that a) they won''t fail anyway and B) they won''t come back later for more?

To number 3 you can easily come back with the thought that maybe it''s too much. Nope I can''t prove it is....but if it is, you''re getting profit sharing. So, if the company makes money, you do too. Don''t give me the $500M hurdle question...look at airline return on investment...it''s the pits. Profit sharing in the airlines is a horrible idea to investors. You''re already not able to return to them what they should get, now you''re giving it away to overpaid employees. Yes overpaid. I know some moron stated that airline wages haven''t kept up with CPI....so what. How does it compare to the avg American worker? Think people, think real hard.

Bob Owens...the company is not putting the entire burden on employees. The company is cutting $3.8 billion. Two billion has been cut through other changes. Now the other $1.8B must come from employees where AA is at a competitive disadvantage. When you compare the cost of labor at AA to OA''s, on a stage adjusted basis, you folks cost too much to compete. Why six years? Well folks, low cost carriers aren''t going away. As a matter of fact, they''re getting bigger, while the AA''s of the world are getting smaller. Mainline trunk carrier''s ability to generate a significant premium (in the past 30%) in revenue vs. LCCs is severely diminished. The placing the burden where it belongs...$2B in inefficiency, $1.8B in employee costs. When it puts AA ahead, you''ll get some back and keep the company in a position to re-invest in the business.

Ignorance is bliss...

 

[Hopeful]

AAviator: And your hourly rate is what? $150.00/hr, 200/hr? Remember this flyboy: when you have the aircraft on autopilot, maintenance is flying the aircraft. Which is about 90% of the time.

 

[RV4]

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On 4/10/2003 9:16:56 AM xlurker wrote:

There is a very simple solution to all the complaining.

If United''s deal is so much better - GO WORK THERE

If the company is screwing you - QUIT

If your union sucks - RUN FOR OFFICE AND CHANGE IT

If the airlines executives are doing a poor job - BID THE JOB YOURSELF

DUH !!!

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United job will suck too.

I am evaluating my options and will likely be out the industry within two years.

The TWU cannot be changed from within, we have attempted that path.

Executive Jobs are not bid, they are appointed.

 

[Hopeful]

xlurker:

I believe you don''t have a clue as to how our corrupt TWU runs. All international positions are made by appointment. Local presidents are elected. All Jim Little has ever needed to get a contract vote through is to get the largest Tulsa Local on his side. And you should be smart enough to know how one gets another on his or her side.

 

[AAviator]

WOW Hopeful! I never thought of it that way. If this were true your union really does SUCK!
But, back to reality, the only people you''ll find that agee with that statement are other mechanics, and people who hold some sort of resentment towards pilots.

 

[RV4]

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On 4/10/2003 9:03:56 AM AAviator wrote:


WOW Hopeful! I never thought of it that way. If this were true your union really does SUCK!
But, back to reality, the only people you''ll find that agee with that statement are other mechanics, and people who hold some sort of resentment towards pilots.
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Hmmm, maybe you should try reading more than just internet bulletin boards:

Try this:

[url="http://www.amfanatl.org/Pages/08_NWA_Archive/PEBStat_Trans_Exh/peb320nw.PDF"]http://www.amfanatl.org/Pages/08_NWA_Archi...xh/peb320nw.PDF[/URL]

 

[Hopeful]

That's what I've been saying. The TWU only cares about union dues. Period!
I have no resentment at all towards pilots. I only criticize your compenation because, I feel as a single work group, what the pilots have negotiated over the years has indirectly taken away from other work groups. That is just an opinion of mine. You do receive a nice salary and pension package. But I can't help but wonder when your people receive their lump sum payouts, that somehow affects the rest of us in negotiating something more substantial.

 

[xlurker]

There is a very simple solution to all the complaining.

If United''s deal is so much better - GO WORK THERE

If the company is screwing you - QUIT

If your union sucks - RUN FOR OFFICE AND CHANGE IT

If the airlines executives are doing a poor job - BID THE JOB YOURSELF

DUH !!!

 

[xlurker]

Yes but it all starts off getting elected in and working your way up. Getting a number of people that share your same views voted in. It is not an immediate process but has to start sometime.

 

[ualflynhi]

The most reliable info I can get from negotiations
for UAL mechs is that the 13% paycut will be permanent
until contract expires.I almost forgot UAL is giving a
1.5% per year raise.Good luck

 

[RV4]

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On 4/10/2003 9:41:57 AM xlurker wrote:

Yes but it all starts off getting elected in and working your way up. Getting a number of people that share your same views voted in. It is not an immediate process but has to start sometime.
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Who wants to get elected, only to be turned into a sellout suckass so you can then get appointed to "attempt" change.

Just sign a yellow/green AMFA card and will we ALL make change together. You know, use that "strength in numbers" against them.