2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[700UW]

Once again, after the 30 day cooling off period expires, the union can strike, the company can impose a new CBA, which can removed or add anything and they can lockout the employees. 
 
Airline CBAs become amendable 60 days prior to the amendable date, CBA under the RLA dont expire, once you exhaust the section 6 process and the 30 day cooling off period ends, the company can impose new terms, and the union can strike, you most certainly can be locked out as your previous CBA can be gone and the company impose new terms.
 
That ends the Section 6 process, if the company or union choose too.

 

[robbedagain]

With that then it sure doesnt sound like the iam should lean towards a strike if the nmb were to be released?? Dp and gang are gonna drag it out for as long as they can but it is the scs that theyll want soo bad the question is how bad do they truly want it

 

[bob@las-AA]

Once again, after the 30 day cooling off period expires, the union can strike, the company can impose a new CBA, which can removed or add anything and they can lockout the employees. 
 
Airline CBAs become amendable 60 days prior to the amendable date, CBA under the RLA dont expire, once you exhaust the section 6 process and the 30 day cooling off period ends, the company can impose new terms, and the union can strike, you most certainly can be locked out as your previous CBA can be gone and the company impose new terms.
 
That ends the Section 6 process, if the company or union choose too.

You can use self help only after the NMB gives you the blessing, and only after a 30 day chill. And only if the company will not come to the table when invited. Any action before that will be a illegal job action, and the consequences can lead to termination. Check your contract.

 

[737823]

The IAM would never put the union (the organization and it's structure) on the line for the benefit of its members. Buffy would come and instill fear and have his minions at sell you guys a POS agreement just like at Boeing even if released the IAM doesn't have the balls to strike.

Josh

 

[700UW]

You still dont get it.
 
I have been through two 30 day cooling off periods and one strike at US Airways.
 
What dont you get about when the 30 day cooling off period ends, the union can strike, the company can impose new terms and they can lock you out and hire replacement workers.
 
I dont know how to explain it to you any clearer.
 
And we have worked by the rules during the 30 day cooling off period, and its not illegal.
 
Been there done that, have you?
 
And in all of my posts about this topic I have clearly stated its at the end of the cooling off period.
 
And at the end of the 30 day cooling off period there can be a PEB which delays it up to 60 more days, and your CBA can be legislated by Congress.
 
And you are wrong Josh, the IAM has plenty of strikes in its history, even one at US Airways.
 
Now go PM timmy and see what you are suppose to post now.

 

[cltrat]

from where I sit in the cheapseats is all the RLA and the NMB do is geld the union and lets a company run by no doubt greedy crooks bend the employee over

 

[bob@las-AA]

With that then it sure doesnt sound like the iam should lean towards a strike if the nmb were to be released?? Dp and gang are gonna drag it out for as long as they can but it is the scs that theyll want soo bad the question is how bad do they truly want it

Yes, they can drag this on for year, we at AA have been working under a concessionary contract since 2003, and gained nothing untill now. We voted yes on two strike votes in the past 4 years. But the NMB would never even think of releasing us.

 

[700UW]

You are correct Rat.
 
The RLA was enact in 1926, there were no airlines around.
 
It was enacted to stop all the wildcat railroad strikes and created the right for workers to unionize but it spelled out the process for negotiations and strikes.
 
The main purpose of the RLA is to prevent the interruption of Interstate Commerce, thats why CBAs dont expire, unlike the NLRA.

 

[cltrat]

You are correct Rat.
 
The RLA was enact in 1926, there were no airlines around.
 
It was enacted to stop all the wildcat railroad strikes and created the right for workers to unionize but it spelled out the process for negotiations and strikes.
 
The main purpose of the RLA is to prevent the interruption of Interstate Commerce, thats why CBAs dont expire, unlike the NLRA.

that's why I think all this 30 day talk is irrelevant, I have a better chance of piloting the first 330 to PHX than we do of being released.

 

[700UW]

Well the NMB is certainly dragging its feet, the company is clearly negotiating in bad faith, its time for the membership to step up and do what needs to be done.

 

[bob@las-AA]

Well the NMB is certainly dragging its feet, the company is clearly negotiating in bad faith, its time for the membership to step up and do what needs to be done.

And what in your mind need to be done?

 

[bob@las-AA]

FY 2012 None        
FY 2011 None        
FY 2010     5     Spirit Airlines     ALPA     6/12/10     6/16/10
FY 2009     17     AmeriJet     IBT     8/27/09     9/13/09
FY 2008     None   
FY 2007     None   
FY 2006     52     Petroleum Helicopters (PHI Inc)     OPEIU     9/20/06     11/10/06
FY 2006     9     World Airways     IBT     1/28/06     2/5/06
FY 2005     17     Polar Air Cargo     ALPA     9/16/05     10/2/05
FY 2005     416     Northwest Airlines     AMFA     8/20/05     10/9/06
FY 2004     None   
FY 2003     None (d)   
FY 2002     None (c)   
FY 2001     89     Comair     ALPA     3/26/01     6/22/01
FY 2000     None   
FY 1999     None   
FY 1998     15     Northwest Airlines     ALPA     8/29/98     9/12/98
FY 1998     89-min (b)     Skyway     ALPA     12/20/97     12/20/97
FY 1997     24-min (a)     American Airlines     APA     2/15/97     2/15/97
FY 1996     None   
FY 1995     None   
FY 1994     5     American     APFA     11/18/93     11/22/93
FY 1993     2,273     Alitalia     IAM     9/3/93     11/24/99
FY 1993     5     USAir     IAM     10/5/92     10/9/92
FY 1992     None   
FY 1991     None   
FY 1990     None   
FY 1989     684     Eastern     IAM     3/4/89     1/17/91
FY 1988     None   
FY 1987     None   
FY 1986     72     Trans World     IFFA     3/7/86     5/18/86
FY 1985     29     United     ALPA     5/17/85     6/14/85
FY 1985     92     Alaska     IAM     3/4/85     6/3/85
FY 1985     28     Pan American     TWU     2/28/85     3/27/85
FY 1985     1     Ozark     IAM (Agents)     2/7/85     2/7/85
FY 1984     1     Pan American     TWU     8/15/84     8/15/84
FY 1984     851     EL AL Israel     IAM     3/16/84     7/14/86
FY 1984     565     Continental     UFA     10/1/83     4/17/85
FY 1984     716     Continental     ALPA     10/1/83     9/15/85
FY 1983     614     Continental     IAM     8/13/83     4/17/85
FY 1982     35     Northwest     IAM     5/22/82     6/25/82
FY 1981     17     Continental     UFA     12/5/80     12/21/80
FY 1980     53     Pacific Southwest     SFCA (Pilots)     9/25/80     11/16/80
FY 1980     38     Ozark     AMFA     5/6/80     6/12/80
FY 1980     127     Altair     IAM     4/13/80     8/18/80
FY 1980     20     Southwest     IAM (Mechs.)     1/13/80     2/1/80
FY 1980     1     Seaboard     IBT (FA)     12/14/79     12/14/79
FY 1980     1     American     TWU (Flt. Inst.)     11/4/79     11/4/79
FY 1979     14     Continental     IBT (Flt. Eng.)     9/23/79     10/6/79
FY 1979     53     Ozark     AFA     9/14/79     11/5/79
FY 1979     62     Hughes Airwest     ALEA     9/10/79     11/10/79
FY 1979     2     Seaboard     ALPA     8/31/79     9/1/79
FY 1979     19     Flying Tigers     IAM     8/25/79     9/12/79
FY 1979     132     World     IBT (Pilots, Mechs., FA)     8/3/79     12/12/79
FY 1979     58     United     IAM     3/31/79     5/27/79
FY 1979     148     Argentine     TWU     5/11/79     10/5/79
FY 1979     14     Philippine     IAM     3/1/79     3/14/79
FY 1978     1     Pan American     IBT     8/10/78     8/10/78
FY 1978     109     Northwest     ALPA     4/29/78     8/15/78
FY 1977     667     Wien     ALPA     5/8/77     3/5/79
FY 1977     2     Trans World     IAM     11/18/76     11/19/76
FY 1977     25     Continental     ALPA     10/23/76     11/16/76
FY 1976     25     Alaska     AFA     9/26/76     10/20/76
FY 1976     16     United     IAM     12/6/75     12/21/75
FY 1975     127     National     ALPA (FA)     9/1/75     1/5/76
FY 1975     4     Northwest     ALPA     8/4/75     8/7/75
FY 1975     125     Texas Int'l     ALEA     12/1/74     4/4/75
FY 1974     2     Braniff     ALPA     9/21/74     9/22/74
FY 1974     109     National     IAM     7/14/74     10/30/74
FY 1974     44     Trans World     ALSSA     11/5/73     12/18/73
FY 1973     3     Saturn     ALPA     5/20/73     5/22/73
FY 1973     73     Ozark     AMFA     4/19/73     6/30/73
FY 1973     1     Eastern     TWU     4/17/73     4/17/73
FY 1972     95     Northwest     ALPA     6/30/72     10/2/72
FY 1972     118     Hughes Airwest     AMFA     12/15/71     4/10/72
FY 1971     154     Mohawk     ALPA     11/12/70     4/14/71
FY 1971     3     Seaboard     ALPA     10/24/70     10/26/70
FY 1971     2     Trans World     ALSSA     10/20/70     10/21/70
FY 1970     160     Northwest     BRAC     7/8/70     12/14/70
FY 1970     51     World     IBT     5/15/70     7/4/70
FY 1970     6     Ozark     AMFA (Mechs.)     4/19/70     4/24/70
FY 1970     117     National     ALEA     1/31/70     5/27/70
FY 1969     4     Pan American     IBT (Clk/Agt)     8/8/69     8/11/69
FY 1969     19     Western     IBT     7/29/69     8/16/69
FY 1969     31     Piedmont     ALPA     7/21/69     8/20/69
FY 1969     21     American     TWU     2/27/69     3/19/69
FY 1969     5     National     IAM     1/17/69     1/21/69
FY 1969     76     Reeve Aleutian     IAM     10/19/68     1/2/69
FY 1968     None   
FY 1967     8     West Coast     ALEA     7/1/67     7/10/67
FY 1967     24     Airlift     ALEA     3/1/67     3/24/67
FY 1967     53     Mohawk     IAM     12/9/66     1/30/67
FY 1967     8     Pacific     IAM     11/6/66     11/13/66
FY 1966     43     United     IAM     7/8/66     8/19/66
FY 1966     43     Trans World     IAM     7/8/66     8/19/66
FY 1966     43     Northwest     IAM     7/8/66     8/19/66
FY 1966     43     National     IAM     7/8/66     8/19/66
FY 1966     43     Eastern     IAM     7/8/66     8/19/66
FY 1965     11     Pan American     ALPA     3/31/65     4/10/65
FY 1965     3     Trans Carib     IBT (Disp.)     12/9/64     12/11/64
FY 1964     2     Pan American     TWU     8/25/64     8/26/64
FY 1964     2     National     ALEA     2/15/64     2/16/64
FY 1963     1     United     IAM     9/5/63     9/5/63
FY 1963     2     United     IAM     8/20/63     8/21/63
FY 1962     83     Eastern     FEIA     6/23/62     9/13/62
FY 1962     2     Pan American     FEIA     6/23/62     6/24/62
FY 1962     1     Pacific     IAM     4/23/62     4/23/62
FY 1961     6     National     IAM     5/2/61     5/7/61
FY 1961     84     Western     FEIA     2/17/61     5/11/61
FY 1961     7     Trans World     FEIA     2/17/61     2/23/61
FY 1961     7     Pan American     FEIA     2/17/61     2/23/61
FY 1961     7     National     FEIA     2/17/61     2/23/61
FY 1961     7     Flying Tiger     FEIA     2/17/61     2/23/61
FY 1961     7     Eastern     FEIA     2/17/61     2/23/61
FY 1961     7     American     FEIA     2/17/61     2/23/61
FY 1961     137     Northwest     IAM (Flt. Engrs.)     10/11/60     2/24/61
FY 1961     2     Pan American     FEIA     10/1/60     10/2/60
FY 1960     11     Braniff     BRAC     9/26/60     10/6/60
FY 1960     17     Northwest     ALPA     7/7/60     7/23/60
FY 1960     103     Continental     FEIA     6/30/60     10/11/60
FY 1960     4     Pan American     ALPA     6/18/60     6/21/60
FY 1960     12     Eastern     ALPA     6/10/60     6/21/60
FY 1960     118     Southern     ALPA, ACMA     6/5/60     9/30/60
FY 1960     5     American     TWU     3/31/60     4/4/60
FY 1960     18     Mohawk     ALEA (FA)     3/17/60     4/3/60
FY 1960     27     Flying Tiger     TWU     1/21/60     2/16/60
FY 1959     64     Southern     ACMA     8/3/59     10/5/59
FY 1959     3     Pacific     ALDA     6/6/59     6/8/59
FY 1959     2     American     TWU     4/28/59     4/29/59
FY 1959     22     American     ALPA     12/20/58     1/10/59
FY 1959     33     Eastern     IAM     11/24/58     12/26/58
FY 1959     38     Eastern     FEIA     11/24/58     12/31/58
FY 1959     11     Lake Central     ALSSA (FA)     11/24/58     12/4/58
FY 1959     17     Trans World     IAM     11/21/58     12/7/58
FY 1959     4     West Coast     IAM     11/21/58     11/24/58
FY 1959     37     Capital     IAM     10/17/58     11/22/58
FY 1958     1     Pan American     BRAC     9/19/58     9/19/58
FY 1958     2     American     TWU     9/19/58     9/20/58
FY 1958     3     Northeast     IAM     9/3/58     9/5/58
FY 1958     5     Pan American     TWU     7/15/58     7/19/58
FY 1958     3     Eastern     IAM     5/12/58     5/14/58
FY 1958     11     Central     IAM     4/7/58     4/17/58
FY 1958     109     Western     ALPA     2/21/58     6/9/58
FY 1958     1     Eastern     IAM     1/31/58     1/31/58
FY 1957     31     National     ALAA (Clk/Agt)     9/23/57     10/23/57
FY 1957     3     Pan American     UPG (United Plant Guards)     1/30/57     2/1/57
FY 1956     1     National     ALPA     8/17/56     8/17/56
FY 1956     63     Western     BRAC     1/9/56     3/22/56
FY 1956     53     United     FEIA     10/23/55     12/14/55
FY 1956     4     Southern     ALDA     10/7/55     10/10/55
FY 1955     113     Flying Tiger     IAM     6/14/55     10/5/55
FY 1954     1     West Coast     IAM     8/24/54     8/24/54
FY 1954     25     American     ALPA     7/31/54     8/24/54
FY 1954     2     Trans-Texas     ALDA (Disp.)     3/22/54     3/23/54
FY 1954     7     Trans World     IAM     1/7/54     1/13/54
FY 1954     5     Northwest     BRAC     11/5/53     11/9/53
FY 1954     2     Hawaiian     IAM     10/11/53     10/12/53
FY 1954     1     Pan American     TWU     10/2/53     10/2/53
FY 1953     1     Hawaiian     IAM     9/30/53     9/30/53
FY 1953     12     Trans World     TWU (Nav.)     7/10/53     7/21/53
FY 1953     2     Capital     IAM     5/29/53     5/30/53
FY 1953     44     Braniff     ACMA     4/13/53     5/27/53
FY 1953     12     Northeast     IAM     12/5/52     12/16/52
FY 1953     5     Eastern     FEIA     12/1/52     12/5/52
FY 1953     3     United     FEIA     11/5/52     11/7/52
FY 1952     8     American     TWU     6/1/52     6/8/52
FY 1952     2     American     TWU     5/6/52     5/7/52
FY 1952     1     Trans-Texas     IAM     2/14/52     2/14/52
FY 1952     3     Pan American     TWU     12/16/51     12/18/51
FY 1951     16     Western     ALPA, ACMA (Mechs.)     7/27/51     8/11/51
FY 1951     11     United     ALPA     6/19/51     6/29/51
FY 1951     3     Pan American     TWU     6/15/51     6/17/51
FY 1951     6     Trans-Texas     IAM     1/18/51     1/23/51
FY 1951     1     Pan American     TWU     5/13/50     5/13/50
FY 1950     11     American     TWU     3/1/50     3/11/50
FY 1949     2     Am. Overseas     Commercial Telegraphers     7/21/49     7/22/49
FY 1949     6     Colonial     IAM     5/30/49     6/4/49
FY 1949     2     Pan American     TWU (Mechs.)     4/1/49     4/2/49
FY 1949     1     American     TWU (Mechs.)     10/27/48     10/27/48
FY 1948     296     National     ALPA     2/3/48     11/24/48
FY 1948     200     National     IAM     1/24/48     8/10/48
FY 1947     18     Am. Overseas     ALPA     9/30/47     10/17/47
FY 1947     33     Delta     UAW (Mechs.)     5/9/47     6/10/47
FY 1947     26     Trans World     ALPA     10/21/46     11/15/46

 

[700UW]

Work by the book, it happened around Thanksgiving and Christmas.
 
And your post is all jumbled and makes no sense.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,
 
Am I reading you correctly that you don't think the Company can lock us out at the end of the thirty day cooling off period?
 
P. Rez

If you go on strike, then it most certainly can. But even then, the RLA almost never has lockouts since a company has to continue bargaining if it chooses to lockout striking workers.  Eastern locked out strikers in the 80's, and I believe NW did to amfa after the strike extended but not sure.  If a union doesn't strike, then a company is free to impose a contract.  The IBT chose to tell its members to work under the imposed contract, while the terms were brutal, this strategy paid off with a contract that ended up pissing off the TWU and ALPA who took cuts, as the IBT actually got pay increases.  Mr banker is never fond of lending money, except with high interest terms, if a group of employees can walk off or wildcat whenever they choose.
 
At any rate Prez, I'm disappointed that you agreed to succumb to AH's opinion that your members do not deserve AMR wage rates at DOS.  Even though AMR wage rates are bankrupt wage rates themselves.  What are you guys doing? 

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,
 
I agree with you regarding the expansion of scope should be a strong objective of the NC.  However, I was wondering that with the merge of the two airlines, would that not increase the number of flights into stations which did not meet the average minimum number of daily flights?  Not to mention, we will probably see some increase numbers AA or US FSAs in those cities where one group handles fleet while the other group does not (PHX, IAH, AUS, SNA, etc.)  Eventually, when the two work groups do merge, then the scope would be a de facto expansion if for no other reason than the combination of flights would trigger the use of New American FSAs (assuming the criteria has not changed) in otherwise contracted stations.
 
What's your opinion on this view?

I'm uncomfortable assuming that combined flight activity will necessarily result in many more 'permanent' covered stations. While there may be a net gain, like IAH, and the added benefit of a couple other stations like MIA, ORD, DFW, becoming class 1 type stations, I think language should be tightened to protect against the eventual 'rightsizing' by the company with smaller narrowbody aircraft,    Back in 2008, recognition and scope was added to protect additional stations as a result of the merger. But such additional protections were nothing more than ghost protections for most of the listed stations, although some stations are still around since they didn't go under 4 flights a day. Moving forward, I think we need real scope and not the drop dead scope that we saw with the 2008 contract that eventually saw many stations fade away.
 
Further, there doesn't seem to be any foresight and commitment with the leadership of this union and the TWU regarding scope.  What good is the flight activity bar or any scope at all if the company can toss in 100 seat aircraft and call it a regional?  Seating configurations need to be better defined in the contract as opposed to relying on pilot contracts.  Blaming the pilots isn't the answer to sustainable ground crew scope.
 
Of course, unions don't have much motivation to tighten up scope since many of the larger ground handling companies, who scab our work, are union as well [Piedmont ground handling, Air Wisconsin, American Eagle].  If you ever want to see a hatchet job and see how terrible the union leaders of today have become, look at the air willy contract of DL142, and the AE contract at TWU.