2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[700UW]

And after the PEB, Congress can legislate and impose a CBA on the union and its members, it happens quite often in the railroads:

 

At this point, the RLA has run its course. If no agreement has been reached, either side becomes free to act in its own economic interests -- a work stoppage (or strike) by labor, a lockout by management, or unilateral implementation of management proposals (that generally would force a work stoppage).
 
However, Congress frequently imposes its own settlement. Such congressional action is not part of the RLA. The constitutional authority for Congress to impose its own settlements is found in Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution's commerce clause.
 

 

[roabilly]

And after the PEB, Congress can legislate and impose a CBA on the union and its members, it happens quite often in the railroads:
 

I'll bet Rat would love that-- The House of Representatives would be more than happy to back the Company!

 

[700UW]

Megalomaniac:
 

Megalomania is a psychopathological disorder characterized by delusional fantasies of power, relevance, or omnipotence. "Megalomania is characterized by an inflated sense of self-esteem and overestimation by persons of their powers and beliefs."[1] Historically it was used as an old name for narcissistic personality disorder prior to the latter's first use by Heinz Kohut in 1968, and is used these days as a non-clinical equivalent.[2][3] It is not mentioned in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM)[4] or the International Statistical Classification of Diseases (ICD).
 
 

Roa,
 
You know what I find the most ironic is that Tim was one of the main driving forces on getting Delaney and his gang elected, and he turned on them like he does on everyone else, as Tim couldnt be the puppet master.
 
Yet he doesnt admit he was the person behind the New Direction when they came in and knocked out the old Canale gang.
 
He has no one to blame but himself.

 

[cltrat]

I'll bet Rat would love that-- The House of Representatives would be more than happy to back the Company!

lol you're funny I'll give you that

however looking at the UA agreement I'm not sure the House would do much worse and I'm not paying them.
Even if half what Nelson is saying about what is currently on the table is true
the people I'm paying seems to be backing the company.

 

[roabilly]

Megalomaniac:
 
Roa,
 
You know what I find the most ironic is that Tim was one of the main driving forces on getting Delaney and his gang elected, and he turned on them like he does on everyone else, as Tim couldnt be the puppet master.
 
Yet he doesnt admit he was the person behind the New Direction when they came in and knocked out the old Canale gang.
 
He has no one to blame but himself.

700...
 
I-- more than anyone know this... I spent countless hours on here backing Nelson’s agenda during the 2008 elections. At the time-- I was very naive as to how things actually work regarding Federal Laws and our place in them as an organized group.

 

[737823]

Megalomaniac:
 
Roa,
 
You know what I find the most ironic is that Tim was one of the main driving forces on getting Delaney and his gang elected, and he turned on them like he does on everyone else, as Tim couldnt be the puppet master.
 
Yet he doesnt admit he was the person behind the New Direction when they came in and knocked out the old Canale gang.
 
He has no one to blame but himself.

So what? As with anything in politics people back leaders and candidates and they don't always turn out the way they believed, that's the nature of the beast. There were many people who were vocal proponents of Obama in 2008 but shifted their support in 2012, yes he did secure another term but it certainly was a harder fought victory this time around.

Josh

 

[roabilly]

lol you're funny I'll give you that

however looking at the UA agreement I'm not sure the House would do much worse and I'm not paying them.
Even if half what Nelson is saying about what is currently on the table is true
the people I'm paying seems to be backing the company.

Not paying them? How did you circumvent paying federal taxes? You will pay your entire life to support each and every member of Congress for their entire life!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Nelson, this is an example of why I’m so hard on you in these forums. Your spin blinds you to the facts-- You attempt to drive square pegs into round holes just make your version of the puzzle fit!

You, of all people should know the fundamentals of the RLA, this is basic stuff you learn as a steward, and you think you’re qualified to be President of the 141?

Lol
Roabily,
your gloom and doom over the RLA suggest to me that when your boys come back with less wages at DOS than AMR that you will point to the RLA.  Especially since you are enjoying your retirement and don't give a hoot about wages, and only that we continue to support your IAMPF [which we will].
 
You can not possibly be in more error about the RLA.  There is a reason why wages in this industry [whether rail or air] are far superior than most other industries and it has everything to do with the RLA.  The closed shop is fundamental to this along with the negotiation process.  I imagine that management would just as soon bring this group to the midnight hour, force them all out on strike, and lock the door.  Who are you kidding?  But it isn't that simple for management under the RLA.  And the negotiation process, as tragic as you make it seem, has been a complete success in this industry.  Regarding PEB's, I believe there have only been 3 of them in this industry, from the beginning of time, ALL of which have resulted in settlements and ratifications, as opposed to long drawn out strikes and people losing their jobs.  You mention congress involvement in another post but I can assure you that you will not find ONE SINGLE case in this industry where congress got involved. 
 
Whatever the case, the spin is yours.  Never EVER has a PEB EVER got involved in this industry EVER with non licensed crafts.  EVER.  My hunch is that they don't think ground crews are pilots and realize that ground crews can't shut down the entire interstate commerce......and after all, isn't that what this is all about?

 

[Tim Nelson]

FWIW:  It seems as if those who are advocating for the established lines, defer to personal attack against me, as opposed to engaging the issues.   The line usually goes from how I supported past candidates or became a member in bad standing.  Napoleonistic, megawhatever, and big words describing me that I can't even spell.  Big deal.  It isn't for me to say. 
 
However, lost in all of this "Nelson sucks" conversation is the fact that the NC has lowered its proposal in December to levels that are more supportive of AH's stance that US AIRWAYS workers are worth less wage, at DOS, than AMR workers who enjoy a bankrupt contract.
 
The establishment apologist are circling the wagons blaming the RLA, and blaming me, since I dabbled on some sacred ground and found out a few things about "December meetings".  Time will tell.

 

[cltrat]

Not paying them? How did you circumvent paying federal taxes? You will pay your entire life to support each and every member of Congress for their entire life!

ok I'll rephrase I'm not paying them to handle this

and unfortunately I'll be paying the jack off in the WH the rest of his life

 

[roabilly]

ok I'll rephrase I'm not paying them to handle this

and unfortunately I'll be paying the jack off in the WH the rest of his life

And the jack-off before that!

 

[roabilly]

Lol
Roabily,
your gloom and doom over the RLA suggest to me that when your boys come back with less wages at DOS than AMR that you will point to the RLA.  Especially since you are enjoying your retirement and don't give a hoot about wages, and only that we continue to support your IAMPF [which we will].
 
You can not possibly be in more error about the RLA.  There is a reason why wages in this industry [whether rail or air] are far superior than most other industries and it has everything to do with the RLA.  The closed shop is fundamental to this along with the negotiation process.  I imagine that management would just as soon bring this group to the midnight hour, force them all out on strike, and lock the door.  Who are you kidding?  But it isn't that simple for management under the RLA.  And the negotiation process, as tragic as you make it seem, has been a complete success in this industry.  Regarding PEB's, I believe there have only been 3 of them in this industry, from the beginning of time, ALL of which have resulted in settlements and ratifications, as opposed to long drawn out strikes and people losing their jobs.  You mention congress involvement in another post but I can assure you that you will not find ONE SINGLE case in this industry where congress got involved. 
 
Whatever the case, the spin is yours.  Never EVER has a PEB EVER got involved in this industry EVER with non licensed crafts.  EVER.  My hunch is that they don't think ground crews are pilots and realize that ground crews can't shut down the entire interstate commerce......and after all, isn't that what this is all about?

Nelson,
 
I’m not defending any agreement (T/A) real or imaginary. I have no clue what has been proposed. It really doesn’t matter—as I’ve said over and over... the Membership has the authority to either accept, or not accept any agreement. In is so doing, they have the right to exhaust all of the provisions in the RLA all the way to Congressional intervention.
 
That’s the LAW... period! You can’t spin it!

 

[Kev3188]

It was AMFA who chose not to negotiate. If I remember correctly, AMFA said it would refuse to go back to the table if there was any offer that resulted in job cuts.  Again, the RLA allows a company to lock out striking workers, if the company remains willing to bargain with the union. That's the law. 

 
NW may have been meeting the legal threshold for good faith bargaining with the AMFA, but even that's debatable, given that each successive offer was worse than the previous one...

 

[roabilly]

Lol
Roabily,
your gloom and doom over the RLA suggest to me that when your boys come back with less wages at DOS than AMR that you will point to the RLA.  Especially since you are enjoying your retirement and don't give a hoot about wages, and only that we continue to support your IAMPF [which we will].
 
You can not possibly be in more error about the RLA.  There is a reason why wages in this industry [whether rail or air] are far superior than most other industries and it has everything to do with the RLA.  The closed shop is fundamental to this along with the negotiation process.  I imagine that management would just as soon bring this group to the midnight hour, force them all out on strike, and lock the door.  Who are you kidding?  But it isn't that simple for management under the RLA.  And the negotiation process, as tragic as you make it seem, has been a complete success in this industry.  Regarding PEB's, I believe there have only been 3 of them in this industry, from the beginning of time, ALL of which have resulted in settlements and ratifications, as opposed to long drawn out strikes and people losing their jobs.  You mention congress involvement in another post but I can assure you that you will not find ONE SINGLE case in this industry where congress got involved. 
 
Whatever the case, the spin is yours.  Never EVER has a PEB EVER got involved in this industry EVER with non licensed crafts.  EVER.  My hunch is that they don't think ground crews are pilots and realize that ground crews can't shut down the entire interstate commerce......and after all, isn't that what this is all about?

Nelson,
 
You are wrong! Prior to the late 70’s-- Government Regulation of the Industry, and NOT the RLA were instrumental in the excellent wages and benefits historically enjoyed by Airline Workers. Prior to Deregulation, markets were protected from encroaching competitors, and profits were built in. The Airline leaders mostly went with Union proposals during those days without much of a fight because they could afford it, and they wanted, (and got no) Labor Issues.
 
However-- in my opinion, we are closer to the dynamics of 70’s regulation today due to the Mergers and Acquisitions. Markets are once again secure, and profits are flowing for the majors. Of course the CEO’s would disagree, as they play the poor pitiful battered carriers in today’s suppressed labor renaissance.
 
The time is opportune for Fleet Service to take advantage of these dynamics... the merged companies need synergies and cooperation from labor... profits are up... however, they could be much higher with these synergies consummated.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Nelson,
 
You are wrong! Prior to the late 70’s-- Government Regulation of the Industry, and NOT the RLA were instrumental in the excellent wages and benefits historically enjoyed by Airline Workers. Prior to Deregulation, markets were protected from encroaching competitors, and profits were built in. The Airline leaders mostly went with Union proposals during those days without much of a fight because they could afford it, and they wanted, (and got no) Labor Issues.
 
However-- in my opinion, we are closer to the dynamics of 70’s regulation today due to the Mergers and Acquisitions. Markets are once again secure, and profits are flowing for the majors. Of course the CEO’s would disagree, as they play the poor pitiful battered carriers in today’s suppressed labor renaissance.
 
The time is opportune for Fleet Service to take advantage of these dynamics... the merged companies need synergies and cooperation from labor... profits are up... however, they could be much higher with these synergies consummated.

nah not wrong, this industry still has some of the best wage medical long after regulation, but the government and the rla have alot to do with that. Few jobs in this country would pay over $20 after bankruptcy if not for the power of the closed shop contained in the rla. Complain all you want and pound me for standing on the closed shop, but i think you know if we didnt have the rla that the right to work laws would kill us.