2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[Tim Nelson]

Tim is there any proof that our nc team supports AH? I personelly doubt it. I do agree we need enhanced eveything esp now that we are nbr 1 carrier heck if dl can pay their folks higher wages then we should but not at the expense of say scope

Yes. Absolutely and you will find out.  They support AH insomuch as AH's position has been that you don't deserve to be brought up to AMR pay at DOS.   Don't blame AH for being the party of No when the NC has consistently dropped its latest proposals without AH coming up at all.  OTOH, AH has not proposed stripping scope.  To be sure, I was figuring that our NC was asking for at least $24 hour base pay, given the situation, so I was somewhat shocked when AH told the NMB that our NC was asking for about $22.50.  Since then, I am outraged, that the proposal demands have dropped to absurd levels as if our peeps are all dogs and worth less than AMR.  I'm not a big TWU fan but our NC is supporting AH's position that the IAM members do NOT deserve TWU bankrupt arse pay at DOS.  Bottom line guys.  Ask Prez, see if he comes clean to you. 
 
Remember, YOU have the lowest 2014 wages by far and it is not unreasonable to accept, AT MINIMAL, what AMR makes at DOS [FWIW: AMR is at $23.00 in September].  Delta wage/longevity is around or over $24,  United's is $24.75. Southwest is around $26. Alaska wage/longevity is around $24.  Your wage/longevity is $20.57.     Also, everyone else has shift differ as well I believe, and if there is a lead category, those are paid higher as well.  Never mind that other airlines give profit sharing out, etc.   Dude, you all are getting punked.  And your NC is tossing in proposals that have some silly arse pay thingy that doesn't even bring you up to AMR at DOS.  WTH?
 
[edit: Kev, the new Delta 2014 wage/longevity??  I know you will get big profit sharing chunks as well]

 

[robbedagain]

The rumors ive heard was something like 13% over 8 months which some folks have told me amounts to like 2 bucks n change. I would hope n would love to see our wages at minimum bought up to amr plus enhance scope plus retro. However I thought jerry glass is now involved

 

[Tim Nelson]

The rumors ive heard was something like 13% over 8 months which some folks have told me amounts to like 2 bucks n change. I would hope n would love to see our wages at minimum bought up to amr plus enhance scope plus retro. However I thought jerry glass is now involved

they dropped that.  A sorta 3 tier wage bridge in a two year contract.  A small bump at DOS, then another small bump in September, then pay parity in late 2015.  Moronic.  These guys are out of their mind, it makes no sense to negotiate a two year deal.   Two year deals always leave our peeps hungry.

 

[pjirish317]

I don't pretend to know what goes on in the negotiations, but if we get another funny tiered pay raise like we had in the 2008 T/A, I will rally for a NO vote, and I will certainly be voting NO as well. Best thing that could happen is we get released to a 30 day cooling off. We here at US shouldn't have to wait for a raise, it's the company that wants to fast track the merger, not us, even though we have not had a raise in a long while, we should stay strong and united until we get a fair and equitable contract to vote on. Just my two cents anyway.

 

[Tim Nelson]

I don't pretend to know what goes on in the negotiations, but if we get another funny tiered pay raise like we had in the 2008 T/A, I will rally for a NO vote, and I will certainly be voting NO as well. Best thing that could happen is we get released to a 30 day cooling off. We here at US shouldn't have to wait for a raise, it's the company that wants to fast track the merger, not us, even though we have not had a raise in a long while, we should stay strong and united until we get a fair and equitable contract to vote on. Just my two cents anyway.

You bring up a good point about a release as well.  I simply want to note that if there was a cooling off, a proven and successful strategy, is to hold off on striking/wildcatting once it is legal to do so.  The Teamsters at Pan Am went past the cooling off as the union chose to keep its options open.  The IBT didn't allow Pan Am Management, or the NMB to determine when it would seek self help, so it told its members to go to work. 
The RLA is quite an interesting Labor Law that can be played to the benefit of the union in many ways.  I know that the established leaders are singly focused in these unions and often just point to the RLA when justifying their own inadequacies.  But this isn't like the NLRA where a company can just lock out its employees.  Remember, after a cooling off, a strike is your option, and it's also your option on when you choose to use it after that time. Some really interesting cases that I find fascinating.

 

[cltrat]

Tim if you are correct and I have trouble believe you would be on it this much if there wasn't something to it. It's truly appalling to thin about.
there is no way in hell I believe  it would pass in fact it would get blew away imo

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim if you are correct and I have trouble believe you would be on it this much if there wasn't something to it. It's truly appalling to thin about.
there is no way in hell I believe  it would pass in fact it would get blew away imo

I think that is the sorta thing that AH needs to hear.  Obviously, he isn't hearing it so much from the NC.  Yes, there is something to it.

 

[robbedagain]

Pj I couldnt agree more bro! Anything short of at kin AA wage plus retro plus scope enhancements will be a NO VOTE

 

[cltrat]

if you want to see something interesting or one may use other words for it

go onto wings look under careers and see how many AE jobs are listed

 

[Jester]

Tim,
 
I agree with you regarding the expansion of scope should be a strong objective of the NC.  However, I was wondering that with the merge of the two airlines, would that not increase the number of flights into stations which did not meet the average minimum number of daily flights?  Not to mention, we will probably see some increase numbers AA or US FSAs in those cities where one group handles fleet while the other group does not (PHX, IAH, AUS, SNA, etc.)  Eventually, when the two work groups do merge, then the scope would be a de facto expansion if for no other reason than the combination of flights would trigger the use of New American FSAs (assuming the criteria has not changed) in otherwise contracted stations.
 
What's your opinion on this view?

 

[Harry Callahan]

I hope no one in their right mind would vote for a pos contract. Stick it up AH's rear.
 
Harry

 

[Hope777]

Anything less than AA and scope are unacceptable!

 

[P. REZ]

You bring up a good point about a release as well.  I simply want to note that if there was a cooling off, a proven and successful strategy, is to hold off on striking/wildcatting once it is legal to do so.  The Teamsters at Pan Am went past the cooling off as the union chose to keep its options open.  The IBT didn't allow Pan Am Management, or the NMB to determine when it would seek self help, so it told its members to go to work. 
The RLA is quite an interesting Labor Law that can be played to the benefit of the union in many ways.  I know that the established leaders are singly focused in these unions and often just point to the RLA when justifying their own inadequacies.  But this isn't like the NLRA where a company can just lock out its employees.  Remember, after a cooling off, a strike is your option, and it's also your option on when you choose to use it after that time. Some really interesting cases that I find fascinating.

Tim,
 
Am I reading you correctly that you don't think the Company can lock us out at the end of the thirty day cooling off period?
 
P. Rez

 

[ograc]

Brothers and Sisters,
If the alleged current proposals and status of contract negotiations by Tim are factual we, the membership, are now fighting a battle on two fronts.
The first front; being the company. In their defense... what company wouldn't seek to take from the workers in an effort to increase profit and return to the company officers and shareholders? Although their strategy of NO is insulting and does not recognize past sacrifice it should be expected. The second front; being the IAM. A union whose priority seems to be reaching sub par tentative agreements to preserve dues flow. In defense of the IAM... there is no defense. Fighting Machinists? Both parties seem to be putting their interests ahead of the employees' / members'. One party's posture is expected in negotiations. the other party's posture is inexusable. Remember... both parties want you to vote yes! Both parties need you to vote yes! Here in lies the leverage of the membership. Sub par contract? Let me think about it... NO!  Again; this is based on allegations leveled being factual and true. LOCK and LOAD!

 

[pjirish317]

I will save my judgement until we have an agreement to vote on, I was just saying what criteria I would look for to base my decision on. Mind you, it was just a snippet of wht sahould be there in my opinion. And before a vote is taken, I think the ENTIRE contract, language and all, be available for viewing, not just the "highlight" sheet.